From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 11:14:27 +0100 Message-ID: References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@provide.net> <86y24rlylf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86czm1k65h.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83y24pmx7j.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24904"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: juri@linkov.net, 52384@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, amperry@provide.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 13 11:15:21 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mwiMa-0006EE-CK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:14:29 +0000 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4778.017; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:14:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83y24pmx7j.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:37:12 -0500") X-TMN: [wImdS961k5BkfOCfW3rMQRvmWQtIISdr] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR09CA0080.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:3d::24) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <871r2gstfg.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 559ea178-de12-4dd0-250d-08d9be215931 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0PR09MB2772:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: vk40WMSeqCBT7JWkyGm7xY6imkEHRXY3knmJZU0AKVC70kAPAiPM7uy+0ylxjvqn/5j+bL/Ytna7K8s9YRd8MT6CJ630u0c9XLHunOFWfi/hp6KgvNtj7OWvrKH3GE2jjN413hAl0+Ik7s02TJMZzAItpuxVp9YFbMQLsJrUYYfPRrzucEaxhqPd6U0j+20iNrqf12P3BdxSmLRvQIfJQJQu+FAy6d1NsbRNm8tbMGxQY2GNw5sW0VSvm0soMc1o86Fonh75DUUKXjCRoZpujtW34znJgro4KSO3gx6SFI/93miZsOKtbcDIN/JTKDew4a29+hM33kRcVytNTVLwvdtucFhPsxynBt2V1OVXkS1m9I2RBxvNQxjhEHielYctO0GmCH46eg4A+IbYw2uW/c7v2L2FtAw7Em8sdVEgO6vh885oZ6GE5O0GO7X6ty5r1+/5TfDjIk6ZndAhxtV61Lba9IdjeKfDGKSneS2nTgkbaeJlgqIsMUJjnp/KY7WMoFC9KKPz01BjiXyXGBhNlY0qGu0NJXkhzAgH8eRk1xr7sIQpE6GmSX8F8HWZuxdZg6rFxmgikMtTws5QjitsuQ== X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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 sonnfx5pnA/LSevRdv0evmqYFzRKXneVNxgslZgMXy/mHEqb7LzjqbTo00akefQiHJdi0PoMxANTb1eklV78OG4zmQeyEoVn7P X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-4755-11-msonline-outlook-64da6.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 559ea178-de12-4dd0-250d-08d9be215931 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2021 10:14:29.5019 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR09MB2772 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:222302 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Arthur Miller >> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:15:44 +0100 >> Cc: Michael Perry , Stefan Kangas , >> "52384@debbugs.gnu.org" <52384@debbugs.gnu.org> >> >> After I posted my comment to Drew, I realized later, that >> '--group-directories-first' does not exist in all 'ls' implementations. Bsd ls >> does not seem to have it, correct me if I am wrong, so I am not sure it can be a >> default for Emacs. Unless Emacs defaults to ls-lisp.el on all platforms but >> gnu/Linux? > > No, ls-lisp.el is not used on any Posix hosts. I thought so; would it be unrealistic to suggest that Emacs by default switches to ls-lisp.el on all hosts? I have done some measurements, not very scientific, just tested simply gnu ls vs directory-files on my Arch Linux, with a directory ~5000 files. As I see it on my computer, the most of time is spent on I/O, once the system has cached inodes, it almost does not matter if I use ls binary or sl-lisp.el, or directory-files directly: *** Welcome to IELM *** Type (describe-mode) for help. ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (find-file "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.202678959 0 0.0) ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (directory-files "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.003737047 0 0.0) ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (find-file "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.001892588 0 0.0) ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (find-file "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.001898974 0 0.0) ls is faster of course, but not like a magnitude faster. That is off a mechanical drive. Switching to ls-lisp.el would let Dired be stup for consistent behavior on all platforms and we could have directories grouped by default. At least according to web search that seems to be often asked question for both Emacs users, and even MacOS Finder users. With other words, it seems like it is a behavior prefered by lot of users.