From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9054: 24.0.50; show source in other window Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 16:04:49 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87k4bovfd0.fsf@sophokles.streitblatt.de> <87eea09rwg.fsf@gnus.org> <0dac16cd-9ae2-496e-7a44-9a7b8860e13a@gmx.at> <87zgso8ab0.fsf@gnus.org> <7fedbe7c-33f8-d275-5b10-39b36137194a@gmx.at> <878s07z7eo.fsf@gnus.org> <7aa554df-18a6-5f63-1fd4-9541e796e877@gmx.at> <134f4301-d4c8-a73b-72f9-fba1577e8607@gmx.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19881"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Florian Beck , 9054@debbugs.gnu.org To: martin rudalics Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 26 16:05:49 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mUUmq-0004wL-KX for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:04:51 +0000 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c55c:ece5:bed2:a9dc]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c55c:ece5:bed2:a9dc%9]) with mapi id 15.20.4544.021; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:04:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: <134f4301-d4c8-a73b-72f9-fba1577e8607@gmx.at> (martin rudalics's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 2021 11:10:13 +0200") X-TMN: [lCIHasXnL6cJs3Epyz4UqJJW1V0yrYpd] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR07CA0015.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:67::25) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87r1dbfn5q.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Original-Received: from pascal.homepc (81.232.177.30) by HE1PR07CA0015.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:67::25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4566.10 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:04:50 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 9edc21ec-0713-40a2-bd8e-08d980f69bb8 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM9PR09MB4739: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: ZYQDAzwU4HG1v7RxJKLqcvyasA5wedW2LQHw5D4a2uDP4WUNRot7E17RuenBR3av6VUpKu73hX5R0FvGWyOaoGK0UyJSK35DLLSaygSW319kjwT5a0XgKBrudxOLhUgMvDLsQzjUg66B//WyXamheIGeZTEIJzf0MHjBAywOvz5EX2P2AoWUj2+YDmMEs0KxJiEDOxqVWOc5Z60rJ8drOQXTcl486aH106hb13xzbbKft0nBP/8dpAWsKJcLlSr1xuFAtemcZm5SiD40tXr6wYcnyiOmUKWkSfQiVE266E79EfI2uWoB6X2xXrHGSwmZjaTHp7PrV7BFdPzWvRcyUxaeFgIm33qcmgbmXLJLV1p0LRnldLzR72WcBSg0hC94mlTJGQYl7estqwZPEgSYhMnU+4YqJOAHnkDtPSJ/UYvacDlT3Pn0G2hSZ+SFeEZh X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: AjWRnZHodsa+j2K/ZLilFMuxGASSfqgIUFeSZFvJuNiGkWx4zSRZT3vo1qpg1Z93yv8Igcz95Fj7gT/FMY96smpkh50z+d/vIZeHATBZ+a6emjTl91WU3mtnxomo1eiL3IdsyqfvQmC8hNnXJDPnkg== X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-3174-20-msonline-outlook-72e6e.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9edc21ec-0713-40a2-bd8e-08d980f69bb8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2021 14:04:51.5647 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM9PR09MB4739 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:215602 Archived-At: martin rudalics writes: >>> I just did C-h f whitespace-display-window, from there went to that >>> function's source and added a doc-string for it. Displaying the source >>> in the help window would have been merely distracting in this scenario. >>> >> Ok, but that is diferrent usage scenario :). You are completely changing >> requirement there. What you describe is indeed more handy when you wish to hack >> a function. But when you do not wish to hack it, but would like to see what it >> does, but stay in the same buffer you were edited, than what you describe would >> be nuissance and distraction. > > The point I wanted to make was that there may be tenths of different > usage scenarios for perusing the *Help* window and its buffer. Ah, sorry then, in that case we are in agreement. Yes there are different usage scenarios. I think what you have considered in this thread, does not even require help buffer. If someone would just like to pop a source for a symbol, you could just code an interactive funtion to open the source file for the symbol, all the code is already there. There is no need to even touch the help-buffer for that. >> Also, consider again, people new to Emacs. Having source auto shown to them, >> makes them probably more akin to see what is going on, how things work and give >> more incitament to explore. I think. > > There are two major sources of disappointments here - many users are not > proficient in C and often the function they will look up first is only a > stub for the function doing the actual work. Yes indeed, I agree with that one. Also many new users would be new to Lisp too. My proposal was to make it optional to show/hide source, mostly because of the cpu overhead, but we can also add option to show only lisp sources. I don't what is the best; I don't think there is a one-solution-fits-all in this case. Users have different workflows, different backgroudns etc, so maybe it is best to just be flexible as much as it is possible.