From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:15:44 +0100 Message-ID: References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@provide.net> <86y24rlylf.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86czm1k65h.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12925"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Michael Perry , Stefan Kangas , "52384@debbugs.gnu.org" <52384@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 12 20:16:59 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mwUL9-00034F-KA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:15:45 +0000 Original-Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4778.017; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:15:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: <86czm1k65h.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:52:10 +0200") X-TMN: [MVKPqn/1ODXyOeU4iGi8C8HfdBgERfYy] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR05CA0365.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:94::24) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87lf0p7hy7.fsf@live.com> X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2750e476-0787-4ca0-22be-08d9bda3cc58 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM9PR09MB4977:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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 VDw6Zp1GD3ymIwFFeFTSqOQ7iUeNhFEJJVI+hOIabM/y+zPn1hTY62UpYdbyony7GQjZ1+hsmJW2tdwnBou3cBDAXQq8tKdAOG X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-4755-11-msonline-outlook-64da6.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2750e476-0787-4ca0-22be-08d9bda3cc58 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Dec 2021 19:15:45.9199 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM9PR09MB4977 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:222256 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: >>> >> > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap >>> >> > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' >>> >> > has its default value of `t'.) >>> >> >>> >> Yet another feature I had already implemented >>> >> since Emacs 21.1 and sent to you for review in 2007. >>> > >>> > Interesting. Or is that tongue in cheek? >>> > >>> > I just searched all messages I've received from >>> > you, including those in 2007, from mailing lists >>> > and direct mails, and I don't find any such >>> > suggestion or review request. Could you point >>> > to it - I'm curious. I expect that if that were >>> > the case I would most likely have added it to >>> > Dired+ long before I did (which was not until >>> > July 12, 2013). >>> >>> I don't remember exactly, but the closest is in the >>> thread "TAB for non-editing modes" on emacs-devel >>> with the discussion about using TAB in dired >>> to move between directories. When TAB/S-TAB will go >>> to the next/previous directory, then `<' and `>' >>> will be free to use for going to the first/last file. >> >> This is that thread: >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg01976.html >> >> I see nothing there that resembles anything like an >> implementation of wraparound navigation for Dired, >> let alone a request by you to review that. I don't >> even find any suggestion that such wraparound be >> added to Dired. I see nothing even vaguely related >> to a suggestion about wraparound navigation. >> >> Checking your and my posts (and others) in that >> thread, I find nothing about any of this. Could >> you point to the message(s) you're referring to? >> A URL would be good. > > Strange, I have a message in the archive from 24 Sep, > but it doesn't exist on the thread that you posted. > >> More importantly, `<' and `>' going to the first >> and last file, respectively, has nothing to do with >> wraparound. So if that's what you suggested or >> implemented, it's something else entirely. > > I suggested to use TAB that goes to the next file > and wraps around at boundaries. Then '>' could be > reused to go to the last file. > >>> >> But I don't use it too much because it's not >>> >> so useful with --group-directories-first >>> >> that really should be the default. >>> > >>> > I have that as default for my own use. But I >>> > often change sort orders, especially for date. >>> >>> When you change sort orders, directories still >>> remain at the top? So first are directories >>> sorted by date, then below files sorted by date? >> >> For my own use, I use non-nil `ls-lisp-dirs-first', >> so directories remain listed first. (But I use >> `emacs -Q` for some testing and some bug filing.) >> >> When `ls-lisp-dirs-first' is non-nil, dirs are >> listed first. And yes, their order changes when >> sorting is by date vs name, or some other order. >> But as a group, yes, they remain listed first, >> before ordinary files, within any given dir >> listing. >> >> The point is that it can be useful to sometimes >> see some or all dir lines interspersed with >> ordinary-file lines. >> >> Again, a classic example is when subdir listings >> are inserted: Directory lines in those listings >> are separated from those of the main listing and >> from those of other subdir listings. `>' and >> `<' let you move among consecutive dir lines >> throughout the buffer. >> >> `<' and `>' have their own raisons d'etre. They >> are not the same as `p' and `n'. (And yes, it >> makes sense for both >/< and n/p to optionally >> wrap around.) > > Maybe then like there is a user option `ls-lisp-dirs-first' > for ls-lisp.el, a similar option should be added to dired as well, > so users won't need to manually add "--group-directories-first" > to `dired-listing-switches'. Do you agree? After I posted my comment to Drew, I realized later, that '--group-directories-first' does not exist in all 'ls' implementations. Bsd ls does not seem to have it, correct me if I am wrong, so I am not sure it can be a default for Emacs. Unless Emacs defaults to ls-lisp.el on all platforms but gnu/Linux?