From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MON KEY Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6877: Documentation: "till" vs "until" in docstrings Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:10:02 -0400 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1282106350 18567 80.91.229.12 (18 Aug 2010 04:39:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 04:39:10 +0000 (UTC) To: 6877@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 18 06:39:09 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OlaQe-0002ex-Ff for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:39:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47451 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OlaQd-0004UR-P1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:10:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:53225) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OlZyW-0003gA-HP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:10:04 -0400 Original-Received: by wyg36 with SMTP id 36so277524wyg.0 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.227.157.134 with SMTP id b6mr6450081wbx.115.1282104602380; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.65.140 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:10:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Sender-Auth: QcfkvE7mYm_1rofKQ2t3vCo3STU X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:10:03 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:39596 Archived-At: A "till" is: up to the time of <- prepositive before <- conjunctive glacier dirt <- noun a money box <- noun the act of ploughing soil <- verb an "until" is: up to the time of <- prepositive before <- conjunctive While it is considered reasonable by many[1] to substitute "till" for "until" I don't see this as something to promote in the docs esp. when there is a negligible economy in using of "till" instead of "until": (length "till") ;=> 4 (length "until") ;=> 5 And where the latter has presents little interpretational ambiguity the former does esp. vis a vis putative Emacs intl8n/translation efforts. Likewise, practitioners of many programming languages often have an immediate usage mnemonic for "until".[2] Note, following list of files/symbols/strings identify visible occurrences (i.e not inside a comment) where " till " appears in the Emacs sources and would be better suited wit the use of until: -- src/textprop.c `next-char-property-change' "This scans characters forward in the current buffer from POSITION till" `previous-char-property-change' "Scans characters backward in the current buffer from POSITION till it" `next-single-char-property-change' "Scans characters forward from POSITION till it finds" `previous-single-char-property-change' "Scans characters backward from POSITION till it finds" `next-property-change' "Scans characters forward from POSITION in OBJECT till it finds" `next-single-property-change' "Scans characters forward from POSITION till it finds" `previous-property-change' "Scans characters backwards from POSITION in OBJECT till it finds" `previous-single-property-change' "Scans characters backward from POSITION till it finds" -- doc/lispref/text.texi "string or buffer @var{object} till it finds a change in some text" -- lisp/subr.el "Execute BODY, but don't call the after-change functions till the end." -- lisp/doc-view.el `doc-view-open-text' (message "DocView: please wait till conversion finished.") `doc-view-search' (message "DocView: please wait till conversion finished.") -- lisp/midnight.el `midnight-next' "Return the number of seconds till the next midnight." -- lisp/vc/vc-rcs.el `vc-release-greater-or-equal' "lower \(5.6.7 is earlier than 5.6.7.1\). Comparison runs till the end" -- calendar/appt.el `appt-mode-string' "The actual string includes the amount of time till the appointment." -- progmodes/which-func.el `which-func-non-auto-modes' "List of major modes where Which Function mode is inactive till Imenu is used." -- progmodes/fortran.el `fortran-column-ruler' "Insert a column ruler momentarily above current line, till next keystroke." -- cedet/ede/files.el `semantic-debug-go' "Continue parsing till finish or breakpoint." -- cedet/semantic/util.el `semantic-recursive-find-nonterminal-by-name' "Start search with BUFFER. Recurse through all dependencies till found." -- admin/emacs-pretesters "user-visible bugs, don't wait till pretest time. Instead, send them" "pretest time, we will have to defer them till later, and that might" admin/notes/copyright "files, which did not appear till Athena support was added in Lucid" " - had no copyright notice till Feb 2007. ChangeLog.3 suggests it was" " till Feb 2007, when FSF copyright was added. Matt Norwood advised:" --- [1] From a usage note @ dictionary.com: ,---- | | "Till" and "until" are both old in the language and are | interchangeable as both prepositions and conjunctions: | | "It rained till (or until) nearly midnight." | | "The savannah remained brown and lifeless until (or till) the rains | began." | | Till is not a shortened form of until and is not spelled "'till". | | "'Til" is usually considered a spelling error, though widely used in | advertising: | | "Open 'til ten." | `---- For example Emacs lisp has these "*-until-*' symbols: `run-hook-with-args-until-failure' `run-hook-with-args-until-success' `timer-until' Moreover other languages have untils to as evidenced with: - the until keyword in Common Lisp's `loop' macro, - the Perl until operator see `perl-font-lock-keywords-2' - Delphi Pascals until see `delphi-keywords' - Pascal is littered with "until" references See pascal-mode's `pascal-start-keywords' - Ada 95 has them too, see `ada-95-string-keywords' - Icon has it in `icon-resword-alist' and `icon-font-lock-keywords-2' - IDL has it in `idlwave-idl-keywords' - MetaFont/MetaPost has one in `meta-common-primitives-list' - Modula-2 has until in `m3-font-lock-keywords-2' - Octave - you betcha - see `octave-end-keywords' - Ruby too try `ruby-block-beg-keywords' - sh has some as well see `sh-leading-keywords', `sh-indent-for-do', etc. - Simula 87 - yep try `simula-font-lock-keywords-2' - SQL - why not try the Linter, Oracle, and Postgres keywords - Verilog - but of course check out `verilog-keywords' - VHDL won't be left out its in `vhdl-93-keywords' -- /s_P\