From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#10127: 24.0.91; wrong window width calc for `C-u C-x =' when *Help* in separate frame Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:41:16 -0800 Message-ID: References: <33462449944A4AD488077588779E681E@us.oracle.com> <83y5v58if1.fsf@gnu.org> <0797981120E94694A8751992E871E874@us.oracle.com> <83wrao8w2r.fsf@gnu.org> <838vn483iw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1322250155 26709 80.91.229.12 (25 Nov 2011 19:42:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:42:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 10127@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 25 20:42:31 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1fJ-00088p-VE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:42:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38961 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1fJ-00059V-Aa for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:42:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43616) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1fF-00059N-Jd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:42:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1fD-0005Xy-PS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:42:25 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37159) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1fD-0005Xu-MI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:42:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1gn-0000om-Oj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:44:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10127 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 10127-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10127.13222501853055 (code B ref 10127); Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:44:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 10127) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2011 19:43:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1ft-0000nE-2W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:43:05 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RU1fn-0000mm-He for 10127@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:43:01 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id pAPJfI3n000979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:41:19 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pAPJfHBP015313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:41:18 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt114.oracle.com (abhmt114.oracle.com [141.146.116.66]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id pAPJfCo5023481; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:41:12 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.44.25) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:41:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <838vn483iw.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Acyrn2zGOfPoJTBWRbCx+D/2WawKMQAAEJyQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4ECFEF60.0056,ss=1,re=0.594,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:44:01 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:54327 Archived-At: >>> I agree that this command should be fixed for the use >>> case when the window width is very different from the >>> default one. I just don't think the direction you >>> propose for the solution is the right one. I don't have any problem with your picking a different solution, as I said. No offense taken - no problem. On the contrary - the better the solution, the better. I have no problem with right-aligned field headers, if that can be made to work correctly (no bug). >> Sorry to have proposed simple ways to fix the bug, >> which don't stand up to your quality standard. And I >> am delighted to hear that you have a higher standard. >> Looking forward to a great fix. Thx. > > You just can't miss an opportunity to offend, can you? Please stop the ad hominem attack. I meant no offense. I really am delighted that you want to fix this in the best way possible. My suggestions for fixing it were only that: suggestions. I have no problem if you ignore them, as I said. My only concern is that the bug be fixed, not how the fix is implemented. I tried to help by giving reasons why I think it might not be necessary to figure out the window width and right-align the field headings. I tried to respond to your claim that such complicated fiddling is necessary because variable chars and fonts are involved. For that, I tried to show that a simple description list can work with variable-size chars and variable-pitch fonts. I tried to show that the manuals can in general deal with arbitrary chars and fonts in their equivalent of description lists. I tried to point out that the WWW commonly uses simple description lists with variable chars and fonts, and without any need for window-width calculation or right alignment. I think the problem might be simpler than you think. You apparently think it is harder than I think. Fair enough. I told you why I think it can be simplified. You told me why you think it's inherently hard: variable chars and fonts. I answered that argument - the only one you gave, AFAICT. But you did not respond to any of my arguments or point out why ordinary handling of description lists would not be sufficient here. Instead of technical discussion and argument, your only reply was a personal attack. Before that, you lambasted me for not "understanding the underlying the problems and the current solutions". Fair enough, if true. But you haven't presented any of those problems, beyond saying that we need to support variable chars and fonts. I responded to that, the only argument you gave in favor of needing a complicated solution. Where's the beef? What are the underlying problems I don't understand? It's true that I don't really need to understand the problems or try to suggest something that I hope might help. My role in reporting the bug is done, and I'm glad you agree that it needs to be fixed. Based on your understanding, you seem bent on a harder, but perhaps better, solution than I had in mind. I'm OK with that - it's your call. My suggestions of a simpler approach were only intended to help.