From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14086: 24.3.50; `substitute-command-keys': inappropriate "(that binding is currently shadowed by another mode)" Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 15:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9fe88f95-c7df-4f43-876c-9ac7332af5e1@default> References: <0FF2F801815441C3B5385CE3202E16A0@us.oracle.com> <87364basd9.fsf@gnus.org> <09025e7c-3f7b-4e39-b573-776fba837ceb@default> <87o8li933g.fsf@web.de> <726d8e32-8682-4d03-a558-c02b31c5e679@default> <87k0w690gg.fsf@web.de> <87blhfrqzs.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6841"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 14086@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 07 00:55:11 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kPvrS-0001fN-Ta for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Tue, 06 Oct 2020 22:54:15 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 096Mf9eY100958; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 22:54:15 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 33yyjgb13n-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 06 Oct 2020 22:54:15 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 096MsCZj021965; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 22:54:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <87blhfrqzs.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.5056.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9766 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2010060148 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9766 signatures=668680 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2010060148 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:189950 Archived-At: > > Currently we say only that it is shadowed by another "mode". >=20 > Isn't that wording what the commit that we had pointed you at changed? > The text doesn't speak about a "mode" any more. Yes. You replied to a message from Saturday, where I was referring to the state before the fix (I hadn't yet seen the fix). See my mail from this morning, which speaks about the after-fix state. > And is the word "shadowed" really unclear? It's used in the manual, but > not officially defined. To me it was clear from the beginning what it > means. It can be understood, yes. The problem is that what shadows the key is unclear. And the listing of keys is apparently by keymap, with no indication of that or any indication of which keymap is parent etc. Listing (grouping) by keymaps is OK, if that's made clear. Alternatively, listing by keys would also be OK. In that case, multiple bindings for the same key would be listed next to each other, and it's enough to say, for a given key, that it's shadowed - because then it's obvious which key does the shadowing. But in that alternative listing it's not clear why this one shadows that one, because there's no mention or identification of their keymaps and their relation. > I agree that it could be useful to tell what causes the shadowing, > though there are ways for the user to find out (e.g. C-h k). Please see my mail from this morning about this. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D14086#70