From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#33796: 27.0.50; Use utf-8 is all our Elisp files Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:13:59 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <9f33127d-f01b-b138-7a0c-ffeac7b77938@cs.ucla.edu> References: <3fd27fe5-e650-b207-fdd4-36f805b89b4d@cs.ucla.edu> <83bm5hcroa.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1545257610 9177 195.159.176.226 (19 Dec 2018 22:13:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 22:13:30 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 33796@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 19 23:13:26 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gZk5j-0002Cs-5Y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:14:00 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 5wz3LRufr4nR; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:14:00 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8D8160AD7; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id sEUCws68Q-6h; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D12A51608C5; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECH In-Reply-To: <83bm5hcroa.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:153624 Archived-At: On 12/19/18 10:11 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I need to hear a second opinion, That would actually be a third opinion, as Stefan's opinion surely=20 counts too and he has good reasons to prefer UTF-8 here. And to some=20 extent opinions should be weighted for the kind of maintenance that is=20 actually done with these files as opposed to the rare cases where the=20 font's style might annoy a language-expert developer if the wrong=20 language environment were used. >> etc/HELLO is pretty much a disaster for me now, as I can=E2=80=99t us= e any tool >> other than Emacs to look at it > > ??? It's a UTF-8 file with markup.=C2=A0 Do you have the same problems= with > HTML and XML files? No, because when I visit those files I see the same thing in my Emacs=20 editing buffer that I see after using common keystrokes like 'C-x v =3D'=20 or standard tools like "git diff", and it's easy to use Emacs to edit=20 these files in the usual way without becoming expert in html-mode etc.=20 In contrast, with etc/HELLO standard tools and common keystrokes give me=20 gibberish, and one must gain expertise in enriched-mode to make=20 nontrivial changes. A primary goal of Emacs is to have source code that the user can change=20 easily, and using enriched-text mode in etc/HELLO works against this. It=20 might be OK just for that one file (as a demonstration of enriched-text=20 mode perhaps) but as things stand we shouldn't let these issues infect=20 the rest of the Emacs sources.