From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Urban Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35885: 25.2; Few mistakes in Emacs Manual (+ proposals) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 15:00:17 +0200 Message-ID: <9d2594a9-8632-eb3b-18aa-359584c96753@gmail.com> References: <87v9hkvygw.fsf@gnus.org> <47224e43-28c1-04d0-4418-b8f069a48b0c@gmail.com> <87d03qx2mm.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11415"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 Cc: 35885@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 16 15:01:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IHi-0002sU-5c for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 15:01:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51092 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IHg-0007p1-Ft for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 09:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34274) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IHW-0007oq-Pw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 09:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IHW-0003di-GJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 09:01:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IHW-0003m3-Bh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 09:01:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Sebastian Urban Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 13:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35885 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 35885-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35885.159758282714459 (code B ref 35885); Sun, 16 Aug 2020 13:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35885) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2020 13:00:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57046 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IGx-0003l8-82 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 09:00:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com ([209.85.167.41]:34773) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k7IGu-0003kv-UK for 35885@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 09:00:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id d2so7018918lfj.1 for <35885@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 06:00:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vzpko2LwDQcLgkiOZLTC820jrRee+R8G48oJDc7HAsk=; b=MwEtz6k1InAmpU0SGGfVmfh2EXVMKZyUGzK6QemoaaJwt6kP1EITksJEjz14aBgkSP FAYF8+DLizpxHyD+zQt3H766MdhRr6ubkPeNSr0hrBm4yqulmHRntyGxqXEsVcb+ruX9 R8oY2uzSXKvbMRGA6bLLQ4u99gpx2hCj2L3TmBWSI/m+ojwGATm2HB3jfVorfDTrX6fJ mQHiFNTDoczcMKOfMRk857El9i0XDq4QZRQVu1+St/p4yor/jIkRuVFTUMv5LCxmLmpC UY+AyNEvNR+Mu5Jg+Drcxiy7PDBEnaHLWdY/T8mDEWt5+i9MjDvhQkecq4zZthH6qFyb 40LA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vzpko2LwDQcLgkiOZLTC820jrRee+R8G48oJDc7HAsk=; b=nWeP47Y+vl65bT1o7lCofJmw6fonoXl1XhFGOI1w0USl7MDQrF4b+uhNhIIR9SXb2G y48gVWbhmesQXiKyVHheInPafJbI3ZobSNggMg1/kHub2wwdXlzYTDNjIyR+G57oWs4E CeInVq1tDitLBHRAttb0bXRVeUjqfTQVr8r9dOxnwWcPGwWXIBFVTg3FPkq1YDdskYef 4cmc6egzwtqMWJ/ZIANeAxQFQWvYWIvAO6+M+2BEbYFhukvii+eisHZ1ECa/PdSskj5A jrOw7DLuuo9QSUBVGGNSvEGw/y3DEKtv5GV+8K/coRUi5eNErcRMg5ezLnkJAgPI21ug KOKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53369yC65GCAVJxgblZ34m67CK1p2JhggZZODjXiCIevJlL8uOhm lTi8NYLDSx7jdPmSQvPJOOIfsI20Ey0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyRR1cTs/aCfAO92x6rqD9iI8tTGvBmI9oA8THXdmnQCOQ5d8QS+2rTUjmPw6GU9v/Fhd3dpA== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5f81:: with SMTP id r1mr5192053lfe.168.1597582818419; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 06:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.100] (ip-89-161-2-137.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.2.137]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w29sm3922336lfq.65.2020.08.16.06.00.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 16 Aug 2020 06:00:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87d03qx2mm.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Language: en-GB X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:185277 Archived-At: >> -Similarly, @kbd{C-x 8 ]}, @kbd{C-x 8 @{} (...) >> +Similarly, @w{@kbd{C-x 8 ]}}, @kbd{C-x 8 @{} (...) > > Looking at the thread I don't think this @kbd -> @w{@kbd thing was > discussed? What does that fix? As I wrote in original message describing these changes: "1st change @w - in PDF this key is split on two pages, which looks bad." The @w prevents line breaking. Or open Emacs 26.3 PDF manual on page 38 (bottom right) - 39 (top left), and see for yourself. I just wanted to prevent this, so that shortcut is in one place. I also just built PDF: - with TEXI files from emacs-27 branch, - with texinfo.tex: 2020-06-25.17, - without my changes, and "C-x 8 ]" is still split. >> -accent and apostrophe @kbd{`like this'}, it is converted (...) >> [...] >> +accent and apostrophe @verb{|`like this'|}, it is converted (...) > > Neither can I see a discussion of the @kbd -> @verb{| change. Again, as I wrote: 2nd change: - changed @kbd to @verb, because @kbd surrounds text with pair of curved quotes in plain text - result it ‘``like this''’, @verb doesn't do it; Unfortunately (for me), in HTML, @kbd prints text in "italics", while @verb doesn't. So, in case of @verb, the choice is: - stay with @kbd, and ignore extra quotes in plaintext, which are ok for shortcuts, but with text surrounded with ``...'' they look unnecessary and confusing, - pick @verb for ``...'' as an exception, but without "italics" in HTML. Although, there is other example later (in TEXT.TEXI), where @verb would do a nice job in plaintext. As I described it: Optionally, I would also suggest replacing @kbd for ` ' `` '' with @verb for the same reason as stated above, i.e. instead of ` in plain text, with @kbd we're getting ‘`’, which looks quite interesting in e.g. "Quotation Marks" section: "(...) it optionally converts ‘`’ to ‘, ‘'’ to ’, ‘``’ to “, and ‘''’ to ”." S. U.