From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9794: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 07:28:59 -0700 Message-ID: <9C4459305EB14AEE9A0EF62F5302595C@us.oracle.com> References: <68A313A7DDAA4912A255DAFE495606F9@us.oracle.com> <83aa8xv2w3.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1319034612 22766 80.91.229.12 (19 Oct 2011 14:30:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:30:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9794@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 19 16:30:07 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9h-0005qQ-Qs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:30:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46452 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9g-0001ce-Tt for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:30:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:51516) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9e-0001cK-2W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:30:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9b-00073h-PS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:30:01 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:45988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9b-00073c-Ns for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:29:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGXAc-0002vL-Kf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:31:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9794 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9794-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9794.131903461311171 (code B ref 9794); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:31:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9794) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2011 14:30:13 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9p-0002u8-0a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:30:13 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGX9m-0002tp-VD for 9794@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:30:11 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p9JET0DA010849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:29:01 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9JEGpfE018116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:16:52 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9JESr9x032293; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:28:53 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.53.26) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 07:28:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <83aa8xv2w3.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AcyOM2XXQoIA+p/xQfeap+kiBhWjigAM/WCA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4E9EDEAE.0028,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:31:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:52852 Archived-At: > This is an old bug #641, see there regarding the explanation why the > current behavior is correct. Yes, it is an old bug, with _no_ good explanation why the regression shouldn't be fixed and plenty of reasons why it should. Stefan even stated that he could "live with" fixing it, though that fix "would not be for Emacs 23". Emacs is not limited to POSIX. %Z is Emacs. %Z before the regression provided useful info for everyone, including Windows users. At a minimum, %Z should be made to fall back to %z or something, so that at least SOME time zone info is provided to the user, instead of just an empty string. If you _also_ want to be able to be "POSIX-compliant" then provide a different format indicator from %Z for that. It is inexcusably misguided to simply remove the time zone info for Windows users, all in the name of respecting POSIXness. Users deserve better. At least give them the %z info if you don't like the natural-language time-zone info that Windows provides: better "(-0700)" than "()".