From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 13:07:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9452eaac-216d-4f87-9f90-6428d85650d1@default> References: <<"<20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>> <<"<83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<"<83mwjcx1i9.fsf"@gnu.org>> <> <<52C750C4.6040006@cs.ucla.edu>> <<"<8338l4w5pj.fsf"@gnu.org>> <<7b8ccac4-1887-406c-bed8-6b58a761897a@default>> <<83iotzv5q0.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388869699 10743 80.91.229.3 (4 Jan 2014 21:08:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 21:08:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, grfz@gmx.de, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 04 22:08:24 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYSE-0005Qy-It for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 22:08:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55743 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYSE-00086m-3l for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:08:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33325) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYS2-00085m-Vb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:08:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYRu-0001Td-Cm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:08:10 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:48663) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYRu-0001TY-AI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:08:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYRt-0004UM-OE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:08:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 21:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16292.138886964817193 (code B ref 16292); Sat, 04 Jan 2014 21:08:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2014 21:07:28 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYRL-0004TE-HK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:07:28 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:38867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VzYRK-0004T4-Bg for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2014 16:07:26 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id s04L7Ngk008078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jan 2014 21:07:24 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s04L7Lk7026075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 4 Jan 2014 21:07:21 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0002.oracle.com (abhmp0002.oracle.com [141.146.116.8]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s04L7Kou025736; Sat, 4 Jan 2014 21:07:20 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83iotzv5q0.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82946 Archived-At: > > > > Better would be to leave the files alone, and build the next > > > > Emacs tarball with Texinfo 4. > > > > > > I don't mind to use Texinfo 4, if there are no objections. It > > > would solve the problem that matters to me. > > > > But not the problem that matters to the OP and other users in a > > similar situation. >=20 > Yes, that too: Texinfo 4 still uses `..' for quoting. No. The OP's problem came from an Emacs that was built otherwise. That's the point. He was aware of that being the cause; it is exactly that problem that he reported (to me). Yes, Texinfo and makeinfo are not Emacs. That's your point. But that does not solve the OP's problem. That's the point. > > The OP uses Debian and emacs-snapshot. >=20 > Again, this isn't an Emacs problem. It is wrong to expect Emacs > to fix problems caused by decisions of other packages. I can sympathize with that, and I agree with it generally. Still, it seems that in this case it means that more and more Emacs users will get worse Info behavior in Emacs, as more and more builders move to a more recent Texinfo/makeinfo. Can we only tell users that this is not an Emacs problem? That's the answer? Perhaps there comes a point when it might make sense to work around some problems that are strictly speaking "not an Emacs problem". They can end up becoming a problem for Emacs (Emacs users), whether or not Emacs is the source of the problem. Of course, whether to try to work around such a problem probably also depends on the difficulty of implementing (and maintaining) the workaround. I cannot speak to that. I will only say that it's too bad if Emacs users lose reasonable Info behavior that they have enjoyed since the beginning.