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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Cc: 30530@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#30530: 26.0; Emacs manual: mention (1) user-reserved keys, (2) users can bind any	keys
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 09:31:13 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <92c8fd97-8e96-4e2b-8706-f5ca97869912@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <<83d10nyf4y.fsf@gnu.org>>

> > Drew pointed out that suggesting to bind user reserved keys was almost
> > as if we were binding them.
> 
> I disagree with Drew.  By that logic, no one can ever say anything
> about binding these keys, and they must always remain unbound, which
> of course would defeat the reason for reserving them.

No.  This is about a library - and in particular an
extremely widely used library, perhaps _the most popular_
Emacs library - recommending that users globally bind a
whole set of user-reserved keys to commands for use only
by that library.

And yes that is pretty much tantamount, in practice, to
that library globally binding those keys by default.

Your claim that if a library doesn't suggest that users
sacrifice their reserved keys for that library then _no
user will ever bind such keys_ is, well, preposterous.
That doesn't follow at all.

Talk about "by that logic..."!  The Emacs doc makes clear
that these keys are reserved for users.  Users do not need
a library to instruct them to co-opt the keys for its use.
Without such "help" users will continue, just fine, to bind
such keys for whatever uses they like - as they always have.

For Org to say that for best use/experience Emacs recommends
that you globally bind these N keys to Org commands works
against their reservation for users, as a practical matter.
Some (many?) users, especially newbies, may well blindly
follow such a bogus "best use" recommendation.

I'm surprised that you would endorse this.  There is no
need for it, and it is not helpful.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-03-01 17:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <<f630bd00-a129-48ec-8788-2ed09964b598@default>
     [not found] ` <<83lgfi4qw2.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-02-24 17:00   ` bug#30530: 26.0; Emacs manual: mention (1) user-reserved keys, (2) users can bind any keys Drew Adams
2018-02-24 17:44     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-24 21:27       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-03-01 15:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <<87zi3y13jf.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
     [not found]         ` <<83d10nyf4y.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-03-01 17:31           ` Drew Adams [this message]
2018-03-01 19:22             ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-03-01 19:30               ` Noam Postavsky
     [not found]       ` <<<87zi3y13jf.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
     [not found]         ` <<<83d10nyf4y.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<92c8fd97-8e96-4e2b-8706-f5ca97869912@default>
     [not found]             ` <<831sh3y51x.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-03-01 21:00               ` Drew Adams
2018-03-01 21:33                 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-03-02  5:32                 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <<<<87zi3y13jf.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
     [not found]         ` <<<<83d10nyf4y.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<<92c8fd97-8e96-4e2b-8706-f5ca97869912@default>
     [not found]             ` <<<831sh3y51x.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<eea83f2b-2dea-49c6-941d-5db34a741a5d@default>
     [not found]                 ` <<83woyvvy8g.fsf@gnu.org>
2018-03-02 15:17                   ` Drew Adams
2018-03-02 15:49                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-19 16:16 Drew Adams
2018-02-24 10:35 ` Eli Zaretskii

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