From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "R. Diez" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#32142: WG: 26.1; Problems with flyspell-region Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 17:15:12 +0200 Message-ID: <912664a1-96e1-1a91-7b86-97184cf62aaf@yahoo.de> References: <745366070.6138533.1531494673065.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <745366070.6138533.1531494673065@mail.yahoo.com> <83zhyuc45n.fsf@gnu.org> <1411313637.6317903.1531513379661@mail.yahoo.com> <83lgaeb6qk.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1531581252 22519 195.159.176.226 (14 Jul 2018 15:14:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 15:14:12 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 Cc: 32142@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 14 17:14:08 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMFH-0005VZ-MH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 17:14:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41677 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMHN-0001ZP-2p for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:16:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50141) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMHG-0001ZE-RH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:16:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMHC-0005XH-QF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:16:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:52311) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1feMHC-0005Wz-KE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:16:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1feMHC-0003Cq-EO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2018 11:16:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "R. 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That's good, thanks. > I object to the "unable or unwilling" part of your complaint. > I was just stating the fact that the feature you expected was > missing from Emacs, because no one designed and coded it. My "complaining" and your "stating of the fact" are both subjective perceptions. My point of view is as follows: I took several e-mails to fix (if only in the documentation) an obvious issue I had reported correctly and I had to insist. Your answers were selective, side-stepping the problem. Your tend to answer in an authoritative way, kind of supporting or defending the current implementation, or negating the existence of a problem. It is a frustrating exercise. This is not the first time that this kind of "resistance" happens to me with open source projects, or with the Emacs developers. It is in fact a recurring pattern. At least we are getting somewhere, if only through your doc improvements. > ??? Did you read the help provided by ispell-region? You could > either: > [...] ispell-region is an even better example than Flyspell on what is wrong with a lot of Emacs modules: - When I press '?', the extended help message disappears after a few seconds, while in the middle of reading it. - The wording "exit" and "quit" is ambiguous. - The difference between exiting with 'x' and 'X' is not clear from that message. - I cannot type 'C-u M-$' to resume spell-checking, because Ctrl+U is mapped to something else on my config, and I cannot get M-$ to work anyway with my German keyboard. Or maybe because Alt+4 ('$' is on the '4' key) is mapped to something else. Who knows. - I do not understand why I have to learn so much to use ispell-region anyway. Why should I enter some "recursive edit" mode or read so much documentation? I should just move the cursor around and fix spelling, as usual. If I go out of the region, and the mode stops, I could understand that. Or maybe if I cannot get out of the region until I quit the "spelling mode". But the rest is too much. - The way to get further help, that you mention, is typing "x C-h f ispell-help", which is so long I forgot when the help text disappeared before I finished reading it anyway. But now you mentioned it, I looked at the help. It's awful. It feels like vim. There is even a "Redraw screen" command! How can you say it is "very convenient"??? I guess we could start a new bug about ispell, couldn't we? But I feel like I overstepped my time budget with Emacs spell-checkers this year. So I'll leave it at this point. Regards, rdiez