From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Urban Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37447: 26.3; Commands on and Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:17:38 +0200 Message-ID: <8e473f5a-2582-7086-8bd8-da75c00607d5@gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="160902"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 Cc: 37447@debbugs.gnu.org To: juri@linkov.net Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 20 10:18:24 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE7T-000fgC-9v for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:18:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55412 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE7R-0003Zt-Bs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:18:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40867) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE7D-0003SI-9K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:18:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE7A-00025y-Lt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:18:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:47914) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE79-00025E-A9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:18:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE78-00015h-IZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:18:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Sebastian Urban Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37447 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 37447-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37447.15689674674172 (code B ref 37447); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 08:18:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37447) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2019 08:17:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56735 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE6t-00015B-B7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:17:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-f48.google.com ([209.85.167.48]:32896) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iBE6q-00014u-V6 for 37447@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 04:17:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-f48.google.com with SMTP id y127so4426246lfc.0 for <37447@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:17:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xoJbCLIZIV/pHinpgUu9li0B0g0SaQnVrZag1oCz4u0=; b=nNi3hPpnkgmZd7vdyEp5+XQBammB85WH0gJPqe8HwngL0nyqIAg8toGjHsMtYLPa5P bpWCBu1PF3MNhgSRuEKvXAHEB7yET7D2QuFi3zHnnOVXjNLaLgfhmoBMdJ1gEPVkdJK6 dKe0T7IkiLKr+jZramidw8lH0CdT8EJLqumFEsQZnM4uFgjUvkDEffPdAFUiqRjXDRkE mz6by0c1Ef+slP742hpZ5EnZKzoubdB/vQvx3is60SWaUheJZSeGPsExCGsWveVe4O0F R9jbLketOKObDTksea7OGyzIKcmD1jb5kp2+YE3LmRc9fPsmpQEGd2FmQ8bxpypd2J7W AEqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xoJbCLIZIV/pHinpgUu9li0B0g0SaQnVrZag1oCz4u0=; b=uPNmCz7+rceFR/SkHekMxQmMyba3VKawyFXjRlemk573TasM1FWf9jowpBqnO3uzRt aPbleXoQPNwseHmbR4HnUb2vo/WlE84uxW0oy/xiXlhGx0H7r79wJCtdazjbB11wntrh koQPZfoT22z18lH0fRikVD1WYD8sg6VmGMpIEqaWtd2tU/SyFxe+MBKPcaPmg7AJj9ic RPE16B1v8UiZKdDp2RPJzBp7dnqYj6kGYfM0Wf/THVqc6gP9Ahw8Tro4nDyYamajUAmZ Ouz5A8LuOH0waBTCObBvZlWngC/NpSKOv8mcGL0WcC0KqY07Ljuwz/TCHp/qMXig8IrI ARDg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWEC3Rb5sUywFDjA2u66MhPrw3We7NU3sW4JGoalpD96QeY1je0 10RYtIK13wFa1FF5KbNQq0Vs01NDBwQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx2TIIOb1yP0kWDHXnjkRPI1ZLkQNTyL1G3pnMRZeVmZi7KO0ne1imwo8qNMgzPOKXUsinz6Q== X-Received: by 2002:a19:a408:: with SMTP id q8mr7853332lfc.94.1568967458656; Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [89.161.0.90] (ip-89-161-0-90.tel.tkb.net.pl. [89.161.0.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e19sm261500lja.8.2019.09.20.01.17.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Language: en-GB X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:166748 Archived-At: > Imagine many users using the same keys for years, and now > they will start doing the opposite - a recipe for disaster. And that's why I'm not proposing changing C-b/n/p/f to C-h/j/k/l. But these two cases (without C-S-) I pointed out doesn't seem very critical, moreover they look like a bug (with 'M-' deleting backward instead of forward as 'M-d' does - 'C-d' does similar thing do , so 'M-...' should also be similar) or like a leftover from the past ('C-') that could be reused for something useful. Also, there are "obsolete" functions that are removed after few versions of Emacs, so why not do the same thing to key bindings? They don't change that often, so it won't be a revolution, right? Keeping old key bindings forever(?), especially when user can change them, is rather strange - confusion among new users, less keys for new/other commands, etc. I think Emacs should have one default key per command, older should be marked as "obsolete" and removed after 1 or 2 major versions. But, this is from perspective of a beginner, so...