From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough. Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 07:38:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8b27118c-c24b-4961-a5a6-6535dbe14722@default> References: <20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box> <834mdnusem.fsf@gnu.org> <20160205151327.GE7727@acm.fritz.box> <87h9hnjhn0.fsf@udel.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454686777 18030 80.91.229.3 (5 Feb 2016 15:39:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:39:37 +0000 (UTC) To: Mark Oteiza , 22564@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 05 16:39:24 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiTj-0000Fl-Iu for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:39:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48947 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiTa-0004GW-Kg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:39:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55365) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiTR-0004GK-Vh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:39:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiTO-0004xp-Q1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:39:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:54207) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiTO-0004xl-M2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:39:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiTO-0006p1-DA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:39:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22564 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22564-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22564.145468671226184 (code B ref 22564); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 15:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22564) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Feb 2016 15:38:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34563 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiSu-0006oG-JL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:38:32 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:24555) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aRiSt-0006o1-6P for 22564@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 10:38:31 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u15FcOFD026812 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:38:25 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u15FcOZM003530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:38:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u15FcN9u012125; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:38:23 GMT In-Reply-To: <87h9hnjhn0.fsf@udel.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:112497 Archived-At: > > You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode? I woul= d > > argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM. At the > > moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode. > > > > I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly > > enabled by the user in an FM buffer. We've become far too "clever" wit= h > > all these facilities. >=20 > electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I > never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was > implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only > later on did I realize to disable this electric mode). I agree. I disabled it as soon as I encountered it, but I disagree that users should be subjected to it by default. Especially in Fundamental mode.