From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14380: 24.3; `network-stream-open-tls' fails in some imap servers on w32 Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:02 -0400 Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=A2=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=BE=D1=80_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=97=D0=BB=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B2?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87zjvr64lt.fsf_-___27816.1553120755$1368933473$gmane$org@lifelogs.com> References: <87k3mw79iv.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1368933468 22042 80.91.229.3 (19 May 2013 03:17:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 03:17:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14380@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 19 05:17:47 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu81-0005gs-Av for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 05:17:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55042 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu80-0001TF-Qs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36704) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu7v-0001NP-Bz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu7u-0005wA-8T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:39 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:34352) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu7u-0005w6-50 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu8I-0004kr-3e; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:18:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ted Zlatanov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 03:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14380 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14380-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14380.136893347518242 (code B ref 14380); Sun, 19 May 2013 03:18:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14380) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2013 03:17:55 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu8A-0004kA-NV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gg0-f177.google.com ([209.85.161.177]:45195) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Udu88-0004jn-9y for 14380@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 May 2013 23:17:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-gg0-f177.google.com with SMTP id r4so1064894ggn.22 for <14380@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 May 2013 20:17:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lifelogs.com; s=google; h=x-received:from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:x-face :mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=C8X8nNHAzGNfl/ehV5j6PIpckDXYYlWArBNDLpv5+XQ=; b=lDURJv4krHABLqHUd26YrbTCpdYMMzoa5PKmc3i/ul4Wlj1KdJ7K2av22z7AgZkish H6NMp4qjqRs0d0ZIO0C/WTmH4r7/T3e7oRDrXKs4p5vRH3BCVfnXGgPCboB4F1/yMdIu 344WVhT1zSDC5tVpIS0rc0g4iFKlW6BvayQyM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:x-face :mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=C8X8nNHAzGNfl/ehV5j6PIpckDXYYlWArBNDLpv5+XQ=; b=KEhwLNcpLS4iItZX8WTdGw7givhGUgZ7uSAxWcaf9QGA1Jebz0EVwpKswFbc/9ndf4 v4egRz53+CxHveZ0aztJF5Z0EF877YXJLFacqExM3s1VStdgMFDgNvW8YZ6u4SRHxjpm Q3TBVQUtdMfn/h6RtG7tcQB0qaziBKFvOyrm0KVUPPRt7qPK+juvkMVjClP56ttLi6Nj NTjrCPsIC/bXlDV7jU8Bs+WxSN+IB3SXGCjQWRUTBsu/BHDmgw59hVBy+NjuAJ2JnPgP dWAkEpI9xyEVzfvqKvYq4xAWQ+TfKc4bm8DlhNsdw3J8O6pbc7NjP/PjQoS1a8iBxCiO BADQ== X-Received: by 10.236.138.79 with SMTP id z55mr30477992yhi.104.1368933441907; Sat, 18 May 2013 20:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from heechee (pool-72-93-26-80.bstnma.east.verizon.net. [72.93.26.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m64sm11230089yhj.21.2013.05.18.20.17.13 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 18 May 2013 20:17:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Sat, 18 May 2013 14:05:47 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnE4mnQnNdJeDo7tyz2jZJ3Hp9uYMVv38yIrG/A7fjWs76s/XpV7rv9jfMeNJtv0ISlyZ9D X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:74398 Archived-At: (CC to emacs-devel as I think this discussion is relevant there) On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:05:47 +0100 Jo=E3o T=E1vora w= rote:=20 JT> The point [is] that needing external libraries which are not always JT> bundled doesn't make it very "builtin". I'm not bringing GnuTLS into the Emacs source tree, which is the only other way to make it built-in functionality. I understand there are issues with external dependencies and in fact I asked that we bundle the GnuTLS W32 DLLs with the W32 Emacs builds. That led to a long discussions about how that makes security our responsibility and how we then need to deal with GnuTLS updates, and I didn't have a strong desire to become a W32 distribution expert since I barely know that platform. No one else picked it up, and there we are with "install it yourself" as the recommended way to get GnuTLS to work on W32. >> I've seen dozens of bugs related to "almost working" external TLS >> binaries on all platforms. JT> Yes, but have you looked closely at this particular one? The point is r= ather JT> to increase robustness. That is, `open-tls-stream` could/should promise JT> to cleanup the process buffer of its handshake garbage, so that future JT> functions that use that resource don't see it and don't get confused by= it. JT> I'm assuming they don't need to see it, I might be wrong. I'm not able to fix this bug or work on bugs in the external SSL/TLS suppor= t. JT> But if I'm right and that fix is performed then you've effectively exte= nded JT> "imap just works" the set of W32 emacs users who type "M-x gnus" on a JT> vanilla emacs in a system with some cygwin installation in PATH. Maybe = it's JT> a small set but I'm in it (when I'm at work). Wouldn't you rather get GnuTLS to work by default? Otherwise we serve the use case "I have no secure transport, so let me use a hack by default." >> GnuTLS integration with Emacs. My vote is to require GnuTLS with Emacs >> and to only support it, but there are some questions there, mainly for >> W32 and Mac OS X: do we auto-update GnuTLS? What happens when the >> GnuTLS we install conflicts with another system install? And so on... JT> That's all fine, I guess. I vote for that too :-) The big problem for me is that I don't have the time or platform knowledge to write a GnuTLS auto-installer and updater for those two problematic platforms. The GnuTLS developers don't want to provide this service either. Who will be responsible to it? What happens when a security vulnerability hits the DLLs we distribute with Emacs? My proposal would be to push out the next Emacs bundled with the latest GnuTLS DLLs, only support GnuTLS, provide users with instructions on updating them, and treat GnuTLS vulnerabilities as Emacs vulnerabilities. This is not ideal but IMO better than the current situation. Ted