bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Therese Godefroy via RT]

On Wed Nov 14 20:56:04 2018, spaulk@mail.umw.edu wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> ”FSF store”<https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/> this hyperlink
> found inside of all of the manuals located
> here<https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/emacs.html> are broken.
> 
> Thank you

Hello Sean,

Thanks for reporting this dead link. It will be taken care of
by the Emacs maintainers <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>, CCed.

Best regards,
Thérèse

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Glenn Morris]

>> "FSF store"<https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/> this
>> hyperlink found inside of all of the manuals located
>> here<https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/emacs.html> are
>> broken.

Thanks for the info.
This has happened before, eg https://debbugs.gnu.org/29671
The simplest solution is if the FSF store keeps
https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
working as a redirect to wherever the current manual is (or a short note
saying that it is out of print when applicable).

I will ask sales@fsf to do that, unless you know a better address?

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Therese Godefroy via RT]

On Thu Nov 15 11:35:53 2018, rgm@gnu.org wrote:
> 
> >> "FSF store"<https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/> this
> >> hyperlink found inside of all of the manuals located
> >> here<https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/emacs.html> are
> >> broken.
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> This has happened before, eg https://debbugs.gnu.org/29671
> The simplest solution is if the FSF store keeps
> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
> working as a redirect to wherever the current manual is (or a short note
> saying that it is out of print when applicable).
> 
> I will ask sales@fsf to do that, unless you know a better address?


Hello Glenn,

This seems like the best thing to do. Thanks for your prompt reply.

Best regards,
Thérèse 

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Nicolas Petton]

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Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks for the info.
> This has happened before, eg https://debbugs.gnu.org/29671
> The simplest solution is if the FSF store keeps
> https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
> working as a redirect to wherever the current manual is (or a short note
> saying that it is out of print when applicable).
>
> I will ask sales@fsf to do that, unless you know a better address?

Can we maintain a list of redirections ourselves using a .htaccess file?
Do you know if the file will be read by the web server?

Nico

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bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:12:22 +0100
> Cc: 33393@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Thanks for the info.
> > This has happened before, eg https://debbugs.gnu.org/29671
> > The simplest solution is if the FSF store keeps
> > https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
> > working as a redirect to wherever the current manual is (or a short note
> > saying that it is out of print when applicable).
> >
> > I will ask sales@fsf to do that, unless you know a better address?
> 
> Can we maintain a list of redirections ourselves using a .htaccess file?
> Do you know if the file will be read by the web server?

I was actually about to suggest something easier: point the readers to
an address that will never change, such as this:

   https://shop.fsf.org/collection/books-docs

Of course, if we can arrange for a more focused URL that won't be
invalidated by bitrot, that would be better.  However, I do suggest to
at least consider the "easy" solution against the risk of a 404 with
the more smart one.

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Glenn Morris]

Nicolas Petton wrote:

> Can we maintain a list of redirections ourselves using a .htaccess file?

We can't ourselves do that for the shop.fsf.org domain, no.

> Do you know if the file will be read by the web server?

.htaccess works and is used eg in emacs/manual/.

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Glenn Morris]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> I was actually about to suggest something easier: point the readers to
> an address that will never change, such as this:
>
>    https://shop.fsf.org/collection/books-docs

Are you sure about "never"? :)

> Of course, if we can arrange for a more focused URL that won't be
> invalidated by bitrot, that would be better. 

Emacs can change to any URL for the future, but the old URL is used in
past releases and their announcements, so it would be simplest if it
comes back. It ought to be trivial for the FSF store to set up a
redirect. I will do that today.

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> comes back. It ought to be trivial for the FSF store to set up a
> redirect. I will do that today.

I meant to say that I will ask them to do that.

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Therese Godefroy via RT]

On Tue Nov 20 11:10:33 2018, eliz@gnu.org wrote:
> > From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
> > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:12:22 +0100
> > Cc: 33393@debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
> > 
> > > Thanks for the info.
> > > This has happened before, eg https://debbugs.gnu.org/29671
> > > The simplest solution is if the FSF store keeps
> > > https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/
> > > working as a redirect to wherever the current manual is (or a short note
> > > saying that it is out of print when applicable).
> > >
> > > I will ask sales@fsf to do that, unless you know a better address?
> > 
> > Can we maintain a list of redirections ourselves using a .htaccess file?
> > Do you know if the file will be read by the web server?
> 
> I was actually about to suggest something easier: point the readers to
> an address that will never change, such as this:
> 
>    https://shop.fsf.org/collection/books-docs
> 
> Of course, if we can arrange for a more focused URL that won't be
> invalidated by bitrot, that would be better.  However, I do suggest to
> at least consider the "easy" solution against the risk of a 404 with
> the more smart one.

Hello all, 

I quite agree with Eli. A generic redirection would be better.

If you want to keep the link as it is, I don't think a .htaccess
redirection on the gnu.org server would work, because the link points
to shop.fsf.org. You would have to ask the FSF sysadmins
<sysadmin.fsf.org> to update the redirection that seems to exist
already, or replace it with a generic one; something like:
  Redirect http://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/ https://shop.fsf.org/collection/books-docs/
The visitor would easily find the current Emacs Manual.

If you don't want to wait for the FSF admins to do this, I'm afraid
you will have to change the links in the Emacs home page and manuals.
At least, you can use a generic link that will not rot:

* The simplest URL is "/order/". It is rewritten by the gnu.org
  server:
    RewriteRule ^/order/.* http://shop.fsf.org/ [R]
  The visitor would land on the main page of the FSF shop, and follow
  the menu link to the books-docs section.

* You could also use an address in the emacs directory (say,
  /software/emacs/printed-emacs-manual.html), and redirect to the
  current version of the printed manual. This can be done in
  .htaccess, or in a page called "printed-emacs-manual.html".
  You would still have to update the redirection whenever the
  printed version changes, but this isn't going to happen any time
  soon because they just released the 18th edition.

* A variant of the previous method is to use the .symlinks file (no
  real page needed).

My 2 cents.

Best regards,
Thérèse

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> Nicolas Petton wrote:
>
>> Can we maintain a list of redirections ourselves using a .htaccess file?
>
> We can't ourselves do that for the shop.fsf.org domain, no.
>
>> Do you know if the file will be read by the web server?
>
> .htaccess works and is used eg in emacs/manual/.

Oh, maybe you meant in future use eg gnu.org/s/emacs/manual/printed, and
have that redirect wherever. Sure, just add whatever you want to the
.htaccess file.

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Thérèse Godefroy]

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Hello,

A wrong link to the printed manual is also found in
/software/emacs/documentation.html. This one can be fixed right away
(diff attached).

All the best,
Thérèse

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Index: documentation.html
===================================================================
RCS file: /webcvs/emacs/emacs/documentation.html,v
retrieving revision 1.7
diff -U 2 -r1.7 documentation.html
--- documentation.html	12 Dec 2017 08:50:51 -0000	1.7
+++ documentation.html	23 Nov 2018 10:08:42 -0000
@@ -70,5 +70,5 @@
                     <ul>
                         <li>GNU Emacs manual: <a href="/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/index.html">Read Online</a> or
-                            <a href="http://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual/">Purchase</a>
+                            <a href="https://shop.fsf.org/books/gnu-emacs-manual-18th-edition-v-261">Purchase</a>
                         </li>
                         <li>An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp:

bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Nicolas Petton]

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Thérèse Godefroy <godef.th@free.fr> writes:

> Hello,

Hi Thèrèse,

> A wrong link to the printed manual is also found in
> /software/emacs/documentation.html. This one can be fixed right away
> (diff attached).

I applied the patch, thanks.

Cheers,
Nico

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bug#33393: [gnu.org #1336696] 404 link

[Glenn Morris]

sales@fsf have fixed the https://shop.fsf.org/product/emacs-manual link.

(I did ask if they wanted Emacs to use a different link in future, but
they did not comment.)