From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Kevin Vigouroux via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41532: Why use the mouse in Emacs? Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 19:37:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87zh9vgbkc.fsf@laposte.net> Reply-To: Kevin Vigouroux Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="3159"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) To: 41532@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 19:39:12 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH4C-0000hZ-L4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 19:39:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48742 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH4B-0005TC-72 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:39:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41300) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH42-0005Sp-ML for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:59108) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH42-0002Rm-Cu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH42-0004Oq-Am for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:39:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Kevin Vigouroux Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 17:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 41532 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.159042829816848 (code B ref -1); Mon, 25 May 2020 17:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2020 17:38:18 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH3K-0004Nf-9L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:38:18 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51056) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH3I-0004NY-5a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:38:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41266) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH3H-0005Qf-Ot for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:38:15 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpoutz23.laposte.net ([194.117.213.98]:48782 helo=smtp.laposte.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdH3E-0002N1-7l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 13:38:14 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp.laposte.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lpn-prd-vrout011 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 529EA52E941 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 19:38:01 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=laposte.net; s=mail0; t=1590428281; bh=mu9VbN8KBmoYkRME28Pz3geRtW54Ns+JhNg7rfB4j9I=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=EsT99tRXy0cNPsIZ4aubr9QQR5080YEre7Oh0iV4bxUsOLtZjKD98pw+hubfYButy avsppIeZOsTK/80izymMmsMjVDwK1I47ueULDJBQ+ErMU2wxuDxnfb6OElw6Gth3nd HNo77iVOaCdSCkqkbFZ/Cyod+nD1dQJHsyICH7ZP/cJoHYwOzpAurgi5ZoNnPbJC+T qYIEqCPqeLTrvLUFiqW2XL0RSN6ouJrAn8h5HTcd1Czqj75fjCywCuZoZOARx9oI1R UKy5ZkDukmXXTDYEuhkeZfTXscOL4T/n+jsVciKRTrcOx4kKQUtMhRuas2O9GbfXtm WCKWOyy6bla+A== Original-Received: from mlpnf0120.laposte.net (unknown [10.94.128.99]) by lpn-prd-vrout011 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABEB52E940 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 19:38:01 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from outgoing-mail.laposte.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpnf0103.laposte.net (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 49W4786JvRz10MQT for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 19:37:56 +0200 (CEST) X-mail-filterd: 0.4.0.2 X-mail-filterd: 0.4.0.2 X-lpn-spamrating: 40 X-lpn-spamlevel: not-spam X-lpn-spamcause: OK, (0)(0000)gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddvtddgudduvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfntefrqffuvffgpdfqfgfvpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffkfgfgggtsehttdertddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghvihhnucggihhgohhurhhouhiguceokhgvrdhvihhgohhurhhouhigsehlrghpohhsthgvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtffetueekkeettdeutdfgteejudfhkeffvdegheejhedviefhudeugfetiedtudenucfkphepvddrudefrddukeegrdejkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopegslhhuvghmrghnpdhinhgvthepvddrudefrddukeegrdejkedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehkvgdrvhhighhouhhrohhugieslhgrphhoshhtvgdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopegsuhhgqdhgnhhuqdgvmhgrtghssehgnhhurdhorhhg X-lpn-mailing: LEGIT Original-Received: from blueman (arennes-257-1-177-78.w2-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [2.13.184.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mlpnf0103.laposte.net (SMTP Server) with ESMTPSA id 49W4784kLFz10MQS for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 19:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=194.117.213.98; envelope-from=ke.vigouroux@laposte.net; helo=smtp.laposte.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/25 13:38:01 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:180994 Archived-At: I briefly followed the discussions about the graphical interface on the developer mailing list. One issue that comes to mind is the role of the graphical user interface. Comparing Emacs with other GUIs, one perceives that the Emacs graphical interface is half broken. This would explain why many users would prefer using the keyboard or why some users would perceive Emacs as an outdated text editor. You can use the mouse to click on certain elements but it is difficult to navigate with the mouse or to organize its work because the interface is not designed this way. The menu, for example, does not open graphical windows but usual Emacs windows (minibuffer, echo area, Customize...). Finally, I think it is necessary to clarify that we use Emacs mainly with the keyboard because the interface is designed that way otherwise the user will have false expectations. Best regards, Kevin Vigouroux