From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61325: 30.0.50; Jokes in GNUS manual Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2023 13:01:14 +0000 Message-ID: <87zg9peijp.fsf@localhost> References: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> <87wn4u6xj0.fsf@yahoo.com> <871qn1afay.fsf@localhost> <87r0v17iul.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27042"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 61325@debbugs.gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 07 14:01:24 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNbA-0006mA-Lj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:01:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNaq-0003Mj-Pu; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 08:01:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNao-0003LZ-I3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 08:01:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNao-0007gn-9p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 08:01:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNao-00075W-1o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 08:01:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ihor Radchenko Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2023 13:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61325 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61325-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61325.167577485227223 (code B ref 61325); Tue, 07 Feb 2023 13:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61325) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2023 13:00:52 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51480 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNae-000751-3I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 08:00:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:53213) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pPNab-00074m-9J for 61325@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 08:00:50 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 353682406B6 for <61325@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 7 Feb 2023 14:00:43 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1675774843; bh=vWQTYUz5CSDuvb9PPOXYMSyOXIPzMt8fBrxKhlbgY1A=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=jwq6VpFqunAuQkeRQpJw3+MHFDut8OHL+hDqfcc39rtvOOUvZDTaMkdDmv2EiVvjD 15QW8v2ikZNYOabjp39erGSxJIz+YxBqeaYNwvXWZGqsulbT9MICEMfTQCg5Ccfm0A ku1EZTzRdhIo9n1g5zmpnfWWuGvMvNDZXBAsox9Zm0XcB50NBhE9AQy/2GowmghkLF 72BDmB+PicxNm4QDbOoH3gJevSzHDD4e7Y3Z1do8duYSj1TiAmlb8tMbgUOCV5ni9I mi4ibV1YU6jnstnpgeZQkrysRyMzGK+bOmVmyko93OhieLkr7G2eCtBWnD27+64vcq cM6hi6STdNTnQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PB3CF1w1sz6tlh; Tue, 7 Feb 2023 14:00:40 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <87r0v17iul.fsf@yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255041 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: >> May you please elaborate which joke you are referring to? > > This one: > > 3.16 Group Topics > > If you read lots and lots of groups, it might be convenient to group > them hierarchically according to topics. You put your Emacs groups o= ver > here, your sex groups over there, and the rest (what, two groups or s= o?) > you put in some misc section that you never bother with anyway. You = can > even group the Emacs sex groups as a sub-topic to either the Emacs > groups or the sex groups=E2=80=94or both! Go wild! Thanks. I also partially understand the joke. My main problem is the last sentence, which I am not sure if it is technical or still part of the joke. You can even group the Emacs sex groups as a sub-topic to either the Emacs groups or the sex groups=E2=80=94or both! The paragraph structure is basically: Such structure is difficult to understand, especially if the joke itself is not understood. To summarize, my problem is not a joke and not that I understand it or not. My problem is that I do not fully understand technical descriptions in this paragraph. > I do understand the rest as well. Ok. I am especially confused about the Note: part in 3.15 Exiting Gnus has. I fail to see a joke there. (this is not important in the context of this bug, I am just curious) >> Agree. My other points remain. In particular, about joking on sex topic, >> which is present in the same paragraph. > > There are such newsgroups on the Usenet, so why would cracking jokes > about them be any different from cracking jokes about any other > newsgroup? > > Seriously, anyone who finds that joke offensive needs to grow up and get > a life! While I do agree that people should ideally understand that jokes are not aiming to offend them, even if the topic is not acceptable in someone's culture, it is not practically the case for all the users. In particular, topics sensitive within whole cultures (sex, race, female bullying) are likely to distract (or worse) a significant fraction of Emacs users from acquiring the technical context of the manual. The fact that another fraction of the Emacs users find such jokes pleasing does not change this fact. I would also like to point out that GNUS is well-known to be hard-to-grasp. A manual loaded with large amount of culture-specific jokes does not help in this regard. In particular, I do find "3.16 Group Topics" section of the manual difficult to understand precisely because it is overloaded with jokes. >> Also, note that Gnus is also email client. Are people who intend to use >> GNUS for email supposed to understand Newsgroup terminology in order to >> use GNUS? > > No, but they are not expected to understand the jokes in the manual for > a _newsreader_ either. Not when the jokes stay on the way of understanding the technical parts. --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at