From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#64696: 30.0.50; indent-to inherits preceding text properties, including 'invisible Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 08:38:38 +0000 Message-ID: <87zg3kqtbl.fsf@localhost> References: <87fs5l3b3g.fsf@localhost> <83ilah79aq.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzux2zg8.fsf@localhost> <83351l74ci.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5vt2vx8.fsf@localhost> <831qh56vvz.fsf@gnu.org> <871qh52nlw.fsf@localhost> <83pm4p5er8.fsf@gnu.org> <874jm0mhgb.fsf@localhost> <831qh459sy.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzuvq785.fsf@localhost> <835y6ca1ah.fsf@gnu.org> <87zg3o8m2a.fsf@localhost> <83wmys8a2g.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8ecrqib.fsf@localhost> <83bkg481g5.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkg3rso5.fsf@localhost> <83wmyrt02d.fsf@gnu.org> <87edkx3eoh.fsf@localhost> <83bkg1sbg7.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21213"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 64696@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 25 10:39:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qODZh-0005HI-SQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 10:39:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qODZQ-0008FR-Du; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:39:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qODZO-0008FC-Pj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qODZO-0003jh-9C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:38:35 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19422240028 for <64696@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 10:38:26 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1690274306; bh=HBOCIynVJ2osclmzP2Jl9/ujR7FIZA1iMeZzHMx86Fw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=mhbOLMvcLPeL+rdaLAYRdrfYQY1Wf6JrZTie94K93pvSGAXz7sz7Z6gkUpGxpOy/7 Zc8F1ZIPLjfMDFWxQLU0OMtJZfM4n6rWnwWPWekkjapMXKUV8OtenyQt49gOMimHj9 SHhcoLra/f6KJrMc8b4WE4w+EucOsVTHdcj5AdAxvACIg2cWenNBJrfzkNFROxVw7b 3OvF7KnummQ43bdJiqrhM5XafNArs9YRda9Lq2qW8vVv4JpzRvVEfnkTiW/kCfyRjB UXmYvHJCZA3A0BqU60HZoNiHKsuxab/+3as7mPcinBq8nwKsRwN4tXMYL/p49bBL6q aMlyjzA3mCKzQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4R99R51F4vz6tm4; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 10:38:24 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83bkg1sbg7.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:266033 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> For example, consider an Org table like >>=20 >> | *This* | is | some text | >> | more | | text | >>=20 >> It looks aligned in Org buffers ("*" is invisible), but not when copied >> to message buffer. > > Where does fontification enter this picture? "*" is made invisible after fontification. Fontified: | This | is | some text | | more | | text | Unfontified | *This* | is | some text | | more | | text | > IOW, the tendency should be to provide _more_ visual indentation, by > making our indentation commands smarter and more fine-grained (e.g., > pixel-wise), not to make them _less_ visual by disabling the important > display features. > > The important thing to remember is that Emacs makes all those > display-time transformation because that's how people want to see the > text on the screen. It is very rare to see an application that wants > to show decomposed characters, as in a=E2=97=8C=CC=81 instead of a=CC=81,= or to see a TAB > shown as a single column. Heck, even the display of control > characters, like , is part of this, and why would we want to turn > that off? > > IOW, the need for turning these off is extremely rare, and doesn't > justify such global toggles, because no one will use them. I can see your point. However, this is sometimes conflicting with copying text verbatim or viewing it in other editors. For example, nameless-mode that visually compresses my-long-package-name-variable-name into :variable-name creates a lot of mess when the same file is committed to public repo and later opened by other contributors without nameless-mode enabled. In the ideal world, Emacs would indent both visually and textually. With visual part only using 'display text properties that do not modify the actual text in file. >> It would help to list what contributes to indentation/columns in the >> documentation. > > They are a legion. Basically, every display-related feature described > in the ELisp manual -- and there are a lot of them -- is of this > nature. Since we already describe them all in the manual, adding a > section which mentions them all together is strictly not necessary for > a reference manual. It's more a job for a tutorial. > > You are asking that someone does a very large job of collecting > existing stuff together, for facilitating a solution of some pretty > rare problem. I cannot justify a large job such as this one -- going > through all the Emacs display features and describing them together -- > for this kind of purpose. But if someone wants to work on that, I > won't necessarily object if the result is concise and doesn't repeat > the existing material. I was mostly advocating the need in "disable them all" toggle as a less maintenance-heavy alternative. >> A toggle: disable all visual contributors. > > It will never be used. I would use it in Org instead of `org-current-text-column'. It currently relies upon `string-width' ignoring visuals, which may or may not hold in future (the docstring implies that `string-width' may as well consider visuals: "Return width of STRING when displayed in the current buffer.") --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at