From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68375: 29.1; lispref documentation fixes Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:21:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87zfx9cih1.fsf@gmx.net> References: <87wmsgztk8.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <871qam995r.fsf@gmx.net> Reply-To: Stephen Berman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17279"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 68375@debbugs.gnu.org, manphiz@gmail.com To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 13 17:22:21 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rOgm5-0004IL-AE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:22:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOglp-0000YG-FS; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:22:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOgln-0000Y7-Qb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:22:04 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOgln-0003j8-E2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:22:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOglm-0008Ob-1q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:22:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stephen Berman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 16:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68375 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68375-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68375.170516288432208 (code B ref 68375); Sat, 13 Jan 2024 16:22:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68375) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2024 16:21:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40888 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOgl9-0008NP-JK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:21:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:53857) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOgl6-0008N7-Nh for 68375@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 11:21:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=s31663417; t=1705162875; x=1705767675; i=stephen.berman@gmx.net; bh=ULbE8bKTx0Z6uG5rNbRAwHNpBoiL5WpcBzE/3gQUGU0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=jJEZlaFMEqvJL4vtwhT35Yml4OsMhnjczH4/naZFmWUioCAOCKfO8ezZloeM+sSX g7GqCb4hUwaOJFbsYSgXYTzy9gUgZQwbVnNOSHmlxQ0eOfb++W3Y+E5e559wJmjBr X51PEpR5OhzIoVMa/gKYCdj+W6ozXdUcL2uux8v7DaVxipQGuSlpNfg/+CXQWZl6U qIWuvohEYwFqsNrwzyDQNtsRRRM/j0GrUwyTuGUg+8rfwwnp6WNA7IFph5b+tADIj QdS0T9a0bpamZ0lEAo3IAQ8dy/hDnz7Aa+iLPp9l2dAFO8ZZha2cEvnss602s07fr 50bECCdWrT1RbGWyow== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from strobelfs2 ([94.134.196.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTAFb-1raXtk0NCh-00UWky; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:21:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:54:48 -0500") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:tI2aVvkMEqFrJWP3Hbpgn1dJOb/5fd4hKdMlyWknlla/adrQYsX Kxad8/nupMszYiA60gjKZJOzpWb0IKhx4CA3PYlWRjf17FoJQoEfTnBsAjGxPrG27OCcMzT qzESz8SijUfKNmPASL/HHxjj0GSccsEobEoOiO5mmWsPvWJoAJK43i9uCnz0EG2gdWIBAsA vWA/7BsZzKQe/TU/moj3w== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:ZV7g5yegA1s=;ic/ZRifpsUcXSYGh6zPTxe0fDkk uKieABUGFNltWvWup+FhD53swS4E5AgAbNeELaFjTfyUmXDzqmpiVYOx5ZQbzHaae/GpNCqJk 5Szh7JXMKGy2d56i5mM7ZnbQSO1Pk1qQAF1Vaa7zsumJ0osvjx5mViumOdueTAIJuSLStkyk7 mkxZEEdsA9DHNz1C3HDgX+jCMcYobvhqCQ5Nb1Y8csJIPhyw52SSbSInQvUGfjMaMEY3v7Yk1 aSeWwL4/xmKa5NgOqp7ViB0EP5xyH58Rxx9Gk2WWyxegw5qM8KAn9lSWNlGXwFdAlUhtX5E67 /atmk9XXPhR/m38FxGy4mBlaAaBOzP44mafRpaSp6l5qkusebu+X8I+ILnfgbdhvYv24HX9IU DStFxJ6Lw000ForgROrCAHk7BsGERsOCf3uTW9S2o+TNv2f7ZZAarPvZrADVmaWLvTgnQYg3d w+8+8arSpXcZU/hkEhdHjBsyy0UdW+U9Gf65rdgdO4jprg9bRSBBHBEhTwFfGjJlz6/BHm6Td h1JB8fe6nPrz/beGO7yTIz8oYzMW4RGl92RTt3q7atz/CESn+KmLBhc/0JN1ZOBFSvFQvx86Q W58uFJt6gvnLLD/N16kQazV64+leE/iS4Ws4yMUl/xrZyd+KkCdD1F7t/CC/PzhkRQaOrN3M4 vDbS+zEku0T2t46eRPtsVcyJjIXpxVPsLv97A2xou9WiQVWUrir6gBbWNuSGIyruNXxCQV0GL yU08zvYf1shJtnv+I6a/vArvw1OkvFVB490chjNPLPFJdT0gVV8yHKSFRU5V9bJZRLOvxunM X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:278135 Archived-At: On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:54:48 -0500 Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > In this sentence "need" is not in the subjunctive mood but is being used > > as a modal verb, like "can", "must", etc. What's special about "need" > > in this usage is that it only occurs in so-called polarity contexts > > (e.g. negative, interrogative), unlike the ordinary modal verbs (so > > e.g. "A buffer need be displayed" is ungrammatical but "A buffer > > can/must/may be displayed" is fine). > > Is there a grammatical name for this sort of verb usage practice? If you mean the possibility of using an "ordinary" verb as a modal verb, then I'm not aware of any term. Maybe this is because this possibility is so rare (at least in English; AFAIK the only other verb like "need" is "dare"). If you mean the semantic restrictions on the use of "need" as a modal verb, then AFAIK "polarity" is the most-widely used term (also in compounds like "polarity-sensitive"), particularly within theoretical linguistics but also in descriptive grammars like "The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language". (The phenomenon is much broader than the use of "need", applying to the distributions of words like "any" and "no(ne)", "ever" and "never" and so on.) Steve Berman