* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details'
@ 2013-07-20 0:02 Drew Adams
2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 0:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 14914
The menu item *toggles* the state. It should not be called `Hide
Details'.
Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change
dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the
current state.
In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
of 2013-07-14 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 113423 lekktu@gmail.com-20130715004922-i67tg2ois14h3fpm
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
`configure --prefix=/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=yes,glyphs
CFLAGS='-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS='-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include'
LDFLAGS='-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib''
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details'
2013-07-20 0:02 bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Drew Adams
@ 2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu
2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K
0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Leo Liu @ 2013-07-20 2:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 14914
On 2013-07-20 08:02 +0800, Drew Adams wrote:
> Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change
> dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the
> current state.
Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable?
Leo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details'
2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu
@ 2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K
1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 4:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Leo Liu; +Cc: 14914
> > Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change
> > dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the
> > current state.
>
> Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable?
How do you toggle a detail? What does it mean?
`Toggle Hiding Details' (or `Toggle Showing Details') might be OK.
`Show/Hide Details' reflects the `Show/Hide' submenu of `Options'.
`Hide/UnHide Details' reflects item `Hide/UnHide Subdir' of the `Subdir'
menu in Dired (but UnHide is bad as written, for two reasons).
I prefer `Show/Hide Details' or `Hide/Show Details' (or `Show or Hide
Details' etc.), but the main point is that this item either shows hidden
details or hides the details if shown. It does not just hide the details.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details'
2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu
2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams
@ 2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K
2013-07-20 15:46 ` Drew Adams
1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-20 4:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Leo Liu; +Cc: 14914
Leo Liu <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:
> On 2013-07-20 08:02 +0800, Drew Adams wrote:
>> Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change
>> dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the
>> current state.
>
> Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable?
[✓] Show details
> Leo
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details'
2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K
@ 2013-07-20 15:46 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jambunathan K, Leo Liu; +Cc: 14914
> [✓] Show details
I almost suggested that too (but with title case: `Show Details').
I probably should have mentioned it. I did not because of the
considerations below, but I'm glad you have brought it up now.
I have no objection to that, but in that case we should perhaps
do likewise for other toggles in Dired, such as `Toggle Image
Thumbnails in This Buffer' (which also happens to be a bad name,
IMO).
Another consideration is that the use of a check box for a toggle
often corresponds to an actual user option, i.e., a variable that
one can customize. And in fact, I believe, that was the original
sense of menu `Options', hence the name. There are notable
exceptions, such as `Tool-bar' on `Options' > `Show/Hide', which
do not correspond to options (and which perhaps should not be on
menu `Options'?).
Another consideration is perhaps that, so far, menu `Options',
which is a main place where we use such check boxes, seems to
be limited to global toggles, not buffer-local ones (didn't check
them all though). Likewise menu `Printing', which is another
place where we use the check boxes heavily. However, Dired menu
`Immediate' does have the buffer-specific `Toggle Image
Thumbnails in This Buffer'.
I don't know what the general policy/guideline is, if there is
one, wrt the use of check boxes. Should they be limited to
user options? Should they be limited to behavior that is global
and not buffer-specific? Dunno.
Should we perhaps have a visual convention that makes clear
whether a particular toggle (a) is global or local and (b)
corresponds to an option or not? Without that, users need to
use `C-h k' or mouseover :help to get more info about an item,
and unfortunately such info does not always answer the question
because it was written in a context where the answer was clear
enough without being explicit.
In sum, I would be OK with a `Show Details' check box on the
Dired `Immediate' menu, provided those who set the guidelines ;-)
think it fits wrt the above considerations (i.e., that it is
OK that it is for a minor mode, with no associated user option,
and that it is OK that it is buffer-local).
I agree that having a check box makes clear that the item is
a toggle. That is a decided advantage, making for quicker
locating and identifying. My only hesitation is the lack of
clarity for users wrt whether the toggle is for a customizable
variable and whether it is buffer-local or global.
Thanks again for bringing up the check-box question in this context.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
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2013-07-20 0:02 bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Drew Adams
2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu
2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K
2013-07-20 15:46 ` Drew Adams
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