From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3540: Please reserve a ctrl-key combination for interoperability Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 09:04:00 +0200 Message-ID: <87y2xye4nz.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <1244771200l.4854l.2l@mofo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="254137"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: "Karl O. Pinc" , 3540@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 06 09:05:42 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0bt-0013VT-OV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 09:05:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60412 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0bP-00055q-88 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34125) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0bH-00055j-Kj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0bG-0004CS-Aj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:05:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:36686) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0bG-0004CL-7t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0bG-00034h-1x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:05:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Marcin Borkowski Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 07:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 3540 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 3540-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B3540.157034546111765 (code B ref 3540); Sun, 06 Oct 2019 07:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3540) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2019 07:04:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45507 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0aa-00033f-Nn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:04:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:34168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iH0aS-00033L-HK for 3540@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 03:04:19 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E829E64AB; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 09:04:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4qnhwnJ2hK2v; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 09:04:00 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (jeden09-dwa27.echostar.pl [213.156.109.227]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6DF68E642A; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 09:04:00 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:168417 Archived-At: On 2019-10-06, at 06:56, Stefan Kangas wrote: > "Karl O. Pinc" writes: > >> Hello, >> >> I want emacs to keep one control key combination unbound >> so that emacs can be run inside other programs that >> need an escape character to enter a control mode. >> Examples of such programs are screen and minicom. >> >> Screen is a full-screen window manager that multiplexes >> a physical terminal between several processes >> (typically interactive shells). Minicom is a >> serial communication program, a terminal emulator. >> >> It is difficult to use emacs inside such programs because >> these programs (by default) bind a commonly used emacs control >> key sequence as their escape key. Emacs users should be able to >> re-configure such programs to use an unbound emacs ctrl keypress. >> >> Sure, each emacs user could chose their own key combination (I used >> ctrl-\, but I recently upgraded from emacs 21 and see it's >> now bound in emacs 22), but this makes it almost >> impossible to, e.g., publish tutorials/recipies on how to >> use, say, screen, with emacs. The person following the >> tutorial might need the particular emacs feature that >> is no longer bound to the standard emacs key combination. >> >> As things stand emacs users have a bar over which they >> must jump to use such useful programs as screen; each >> user must figure out what emacs keypress they wish >> to sacrifice, taking into account the key combinations >> used by screen at a time when they are unfamiliar with >> screen. At minimum if a control key combination was >> reserved the choice would be obvious, at best either >> emacs or the screen documentation would describe >> what configuration and usage changes were necessary >> to allow the two programs to interoperate. >> >> Frankly, Ctrl-\ was perfect because it was not otherwise >> bound in either screen or minicom. The choice of a key >> that's already bound in these programs means that yet more >> reconfiguration of screen/minicom must be done to retain >> functionality, the lost functionality must be bound to >> a non-standard key. This introduces yet more incompatibility >> between emacs users and the rest of the universe. >> >> Thank you for your time. > > This wishlist request is now 10 years old. If I understand it > correctly, it is asking for a mandate to never use a particular Ctrl-key > combination (within Emacs core, I assume), in order that people could > then use that key within screen. > > I think this is not the best way to go about it. Users of screen or > tmux or whatever could easily just rebind whatever key they find > conflicts with their keybinding for screen or tmux commands. > > Since this hasn't garnered support from more than one other user in the > last 10 years, I'm therefore proposing to close this as wontfix. If > anyone disagrees with that, please protest now, or I'll do that in a > couple of weeks. As a partial solution, the manual *might* suggest to use C-z for that, especially that is is bounded to a 99.99% useless command by default (and using e.g. screen or tmux makes it 100% useless). Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl