* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file @ 2022-08-31 12:43 Joost Kremers 2022-09-02 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-03 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors 0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Joost Kremers @ 2022-08-31 12:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 57503 The variable `package-selected-packages` should not be saved to the users init file (or whatever `custom-file` points to). This was discussed before on emacs-devel but wasn't resolved: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00958.html> but The gist of it is that if you keep your configuration under version control, having package-selected-packages written to your config file is inconvenient if you share your config across multiple machines but do not want to have the exact same set of packages installed on each. Even if you do want to keep the exact same set of packages on each machine, you still need to be careful about installing them, because the order of package installation affects the order of package-selected-packages, and so does deleting and reinstalling a package. As a result, I often experienced meaningless VC conflicts that needed to be resolved. IMHO the value of package-selected-packages should be written to a separate file, so that it's possible to put it under version control or ignore it, independently from the rest of one's configuration. In GNU Emacs 28.1.91 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.20, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-08-03 built on Lenovo Repository revision: f23d45603918721ec80bfcef883d22fab15cb9f1 Repository branch: emacs-28 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12013000 System Description: elementary OS 6.1 Jólnir Configured using: 'configure --with-native-compilation' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_MONETARY: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $LC_NUMERIC: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $LC_TIME: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: mu4e:main Minor modes in effect: flycheck-indicator-mode: t mu4e-search-minor-mode: t 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company-template company-css company-capf company solarized-light-theme solarized-theme solarized solarized-faces color paradox paradox-menu paradox-commit-list hydra ring lv cus-edit pp cus-load paradox-execute paradox-github paradox-core spinner dash cl-extra help-mode jk-functions advice eshell esh-cmd esh-ext esh-opt esh-proc esh-io esh-arg esh-module esh-groups esh-util notifications dbus xml edmacro kmacro server elec-pair recentf tree-widget wid-edit delsel use-package use-package-ensure use-package-delight use-package-diminish use-package-bind-key bind-key use-package-core tex-site easy-mmode rx realgud-recursive-autoloads info package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json subr-x map url-vars seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib pcase iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 848943 78066) (symbols 48 64672 39) (strings 32 228119 24655) (string-bytes 1 8079504) (vectors 16 112770) (vector-slots 8 1998465 158112) (floats 8 1911 2096) (intervals 56 1567 885) (buffers 992 24)) -- Joost Kremers Life has its moments ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-08-31 12:43 bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file Joost Kremers @ 2022-09-02 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors 1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2022-09-02 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joost Kremers; +Cc: 57503 Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm> writes: > The variable `package-selected-packages` should not be saved to the users init > file (or whatever `custom-file` points to). This was discussed before on > emacs-devel but wasn't resolved: > > <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00958.html> but > > The gist of it is that if you keep your configuration under version control, > having package-selected-packages written to your config file is inconvenient if > you share your config across multiple machines but do not want to have the exact > same set of packages installed on each. > > Even if you do want to keep the exact same set of packages on each machine, you > still need to be careful about installing them, because the order of package > installation affects the order of package-selected-packages, and so does > deleting and reinstalling a package. As a result, I often experienced > meaningless VC conflicts that needed to be resolved. > > IMHO the value of package-selected-packages should be written to a separate > file, so that it's possible to put it under version control or ignore it, > independently from the rest of one's configuration. How about writing it into a file like "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-02 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-02 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503 >>>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 13:11:39 +0000, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> said: >> IMHO the value of package-selected-packages should be written to a separate >> file, so that it's possible to put it under version control or ignore it, >> independently from the rest of one's configuration. Philip> How about writing it into a file like "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? Didnʼt Lars add `define-multisession-variable' exactly for this kind of use case? Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-02 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-02 14:33 ` Robert Pluim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-02 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503 Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: > How about writing it into a file like > "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? The defcustom could just be changed to a define-multisession-variable. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-02 14:33 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-03 9:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-02 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 634 bytes --] >>>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 15:17:55 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: Lars> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: >> How about writing it into a file like >> "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? Lars> The defcustom could just be changed to a define-multisession-variable. For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one line 😀 roughʼnʼready patch attached. Seems to work fine. Iʼve not tested the interaction with a .emacs that has package-selected-packages set, but if I understand multisession variables correctly that will just be ignored. [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #2: 0001-Make-package-selected-packages-a-multisession-variab.patch --] [-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 7539 bytes --] From 1a84bfbc1b568da6bf63bf9679a317b29f78d0e9 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:28:11 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Make package-selected-packages a multisession variable To: emacs-devel@gnu.org --- lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el | 63 ++++++++++++++++++-------------------- 1 file changed, 30 insertions(+), 33 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el index ed23ee5f22..cda55bd90e 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el @@ -384,7 +384,8 @@ package-unsigned-archives :risky t :version "24.4") -(defcustom package-selected-packages nil +(require 'multisession) +(define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages nil "Store here packages installed explicitly by user. This variable is fed automatically by Emacs when installing a new package. This variable is used by `package-autoremove' to decide @@ -395,8 +396,8 @@ package-selected-packages To check if a package is contained in this list here, use `package--user-selected-p', as it may populate the variable with a sane initial value." - :version "25.1" - :type '(repeat symbol)) + :synchronized t + :package "package") (defcustom package-native-compile nil "Non-nil means to natively compile packages as part of their installation. @@ -1907,22 +1908,15 @@ package--find-non-dependencies unless (memq name dep-list) collect name))) -(defun package--save-selected-packages (&optional value) - "Set and save `package-selected-packages' to VALUE." - (when value - (setq package-selected-packages value)) - (if after-init-time - (customize-save-variable 'package-selected-packages package-selected-packages) - (add-hook 'after-init-hook #'package--save-selected-packages))) - (defun package--user-selected-p (pkg) "Return non-nil if PKG is a package was installed by the user. PKG is a package name. This looks into `package-selected-packages', populating it first if it is still empty." - (unless (consp package-selected-packages) - (package--save-selected-packages (package--find-non-dependencies))) - (memq pkg package-selected-packages)) + (unless (consp (multisession-value package-selected-packages)) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (package--find-non-dependencies))) + (memq pkg (multisession-value package-selected-packages))) (defun package--get-deps (pkgs) (let ((seen '())) @@ -1950,7 +1944,7 @@ package--removable-packages "Return a list of names of packages no longer needed. These are packages which are neither contained in `package-selected-packages' nor a dependency of one that is." - (let ((needed (package--get-deps package-selected-packages))) + (let ((needed (package--get-deps (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (cl-loop for p in (mapcar #'car package-alist) unless (or (memq p needed) ;; Do not auto-remove external packages. @@ -2151,8 +2145,8 @@ package-install (package-desc-name pkg) pkg))) (unless (or dont-select (package--user-selected-p name)) - (package--save-selected-packages - (cons name package-selected-packages))) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (cons name (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (if-let* ((transaction (if (package-desc-p pkg) (unless (package-installed-p pkg) @@ -2284,8 +2278,8 @@ package-install-from-buffer ;; Install the package itself. (package-unpack pkg-desc) (unless (package--user-selected-p name) - (package--save-selected-packages - (cons name package-selected-packages))) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (cons name (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (package--quickstart-maybe-refresh) pkg-desc)) @@ -2317,9 +2311,9 @@ package-install-selected-packages ;; We don't need to populate `package-selected-packages' before ;; using here, because the outcome is the same either way (nothing ;; gets installed). - (if (not package-selected-packages) + (if (not (multisession-value package-selected-packages)) (message "`package-selected-packages' is empty, nothing to install") - (let* ((not-installed (seq-remove #'package-installed-p package-selected-packages)) + (let* ((not-installed (seq-remove #'package-installed-p (multisession-value package-selected-packages))) (available (seq-filter (lambda (p) (assq p package-archive-contents)) not-installed)) (difference (- (length not-installed) (length available)))) (cond @@ -2393,7 +2387,8 @@ package-delete ;; Don't deselect if this is an older version of an ;; upgraded package. (package--newest-p pkg-desc)) - (package--save-selected-packages (remove name package-selected-packages))) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (remove name (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (cond ((not (string-prefix-p (file-name-as-directory (expand-file-name package-user-dir)) (expand-file-name dir))) @@ -2485,7 +2480,7 @@ package-autoremove ;; If `package-selected-packages' is nil, it would make no sense to ;; try to populate it here, because then `package-autoremove' will ;; do absolutely nothing. - (when (or package-selected-packages + (when (or (multisession-value package-selected-packages) (yes-or-no-p (format-message "`package-selected-packages' is empty! Really remove ALL packages? "))) @@ -3730,15 +3725,17 @@ package--update-selected-packages ADD and REMOVE must be disjoint lists of package names (or `package-desc' objects) to be added and removed to the selected packages list, respectively." - (dolist (p add) - (cl-pushnew (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) - package-selected-packages)) - (dolist (p remove) - (setq package-selected-packages - (remove (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) - package-selected-packages))) - (when (or add remove) - (package--save-selected-packages package-selected-packages))) + (let ((packages (multisession-value package-selected-packages))) + (dolist (p add) + (cl-pushnew (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) + packages)) + (dolist (p remove) + (setq packages + (remove (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) + packages))) + (when (or add remove) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + packages)))) (defun package-menu-execute (&optional noquery) "Perform marked Package Menu actions. @@ -3797,7 +3794,7 @@ package-menu-execute ;; Packages being upgraded are not marked as selected. (package--update-selected-packages .install .delete) (package-menu--perform-transaction install-list delete-list) - (when package-selected-packages + (when (multisession-value package-selected-packages) (if-let* ((removable (package--removable-packages))) (message "Operation finished. Packages that are no longer needed: %d. Type `%s' to remove them" (length removable) -- 2.37.2.382.g795ea8776b ^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-02 14:33 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-03 9:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 10:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas 0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-03 9:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one > line 😀 😉 > roughʼnʼready patch attached. Seems to work fine. Iʼve not tested the > interaction with a .emacs that has package-selected-packages set, but > if I understand multisession variables correctly that will just be > ignored. Hm, yes -- if we do this, we'll end up with all users both having that variable saved in their init file in addition to the multisession storage. Hm. That sounds really confusing. I can also see people running into difficulties when switching between older and newer versions of Emacs, and Emacs becoming very confused. Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a way that's backwards/forwards compatible. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-03 9:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-03 10:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-03 12:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2022-09-03 10:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Robert Pluim Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >> For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one >> line 😀 > > 😉 > >> roughʼnʼready patch attached. Seems to work fine. Iʼve not tested the >> interaction with a .emacs that has package-selected-packages set, but >> if I understand multisession variables correctly that will just be >> ignored. > > Hm, yes -- if we do this, we'll end up with all users both having that > variable saved in their init file in addition to the multisession > storage. Hm. That sounds really confusing. > > I can also see people running into difficulties when switching between > older and newer versions of Emacs, and Emacs becoming very confused. > > Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a > way that's backwards/forwards compatible. What about if we allowed setting `package-selected-packages' to a symbol like 'external, in which case the list would be saved in a file? That way users would have to explicitly opt-in. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-03 10:17 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2022-09-03 12:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-03 12:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Robert Pluim Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: >> Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a >> way that's backwards/forwards compatible. > > What about if we allowed setting `package-selected-packages' to a symbol > like 'external, in which case the list would be saved in a file? That > way users would have to explicitly opt-in. But that would still break things for people who go back to using an older Emacs version. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-03 9:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 10:17 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2022-09-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas 2022-09-04 10:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2022-09-03 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen, Robert Pluim; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a > way that's backwards/forwards compatible. How about something like this: - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisession variable. Make it say that it will break things on Emacs < 29. Don't run it automatically. - In Emacs version N (e.g., 5 major versions from now?), upgrade any user automatically, without prompting, and make the defcustom obsolete. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2022-09-04 10:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-05 7:37 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-04 10:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Robert Pluim, Philip Kaludercic Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. > > - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. > > - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisession > variable. Make it say that it will break things on Emacs < 29. Don't > run it automatically. > > - In Emacs version N (e.g., 5 major versions from now?), upgrade any > user automatically, without prompting, and make the defcustom > obsolete. Hm... I think this has the disadvantage that it both requires user intervention, but in addition it'll force you into one usage pattern or another at some point. I think perhaps Stefan M's suggestion of adding a new user option to control the behaviour here is the only practical way forward. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-04 10:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-05 7:37 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-05 11:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-05 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas >>>>> On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 12:52:47 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: Lars> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: >> - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. >> >> - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. >> >> - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisession >> variable. Make it say that it will break things on Emacs < 29. Don't >> run it automatically. >> >> - In Emacs version N (e.g., 5 major versions from now?), upgrade any >> user automatically, without prompting, and make the defcustom >> obsolete. Lars> Hm... I think this has the disadvantage that it both requires user Lars> intervention, but in addition it'll force you into one usage pattern or Lars> another at some point. Lars> I think perhaps Stefan M's suggestion of adding a new user option to Lars> control the behaviour here is the only practical way forward. Iʼm not convinced thatʼs necessary. I just did the following: 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages => no package-selected-packages setting 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packagesʼ => package-selected-packages is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs 3. emacs-28, install some packages 4. emacs-29+my-patch, `package-list-packagesʼ, error because it now has a setting for package-selected-packages, which means we need to call the multisession variable something different. I fixed that, and the packages installed in step 3 show up [1] So for the small number of people going backwards from emacs-29, the problem fixes itself, and we can document that, and for people going forwards to emacs-29 and staying there is no manual intervention needed. Robert Footnotes: [1] We can now argue about what to call that variable. I went for `package-selected-packages-msʼ for now -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-05 7:37 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-05 11:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-05 11:51 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-05 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > Iʼm not convinced thatʼs necessary. I just did the following: > > 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages => no package-selected-packages > setting > 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packagesʼ => package-selected-packages > is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then what's the point of the variable? According to the doc string: --- Store here packages installed explicitly by user. --- Does 2) there get that right, or does it contain all packages installed, explicitly or not? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-05 11:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-05 11:51 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-05 13:14 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-05 11:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:24 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: Lars> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: >> Iʼm not convinced thatʼs necessary. I just did the following: >> >> 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages => no package-selected-packages >> setting >> 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packagesʼ => package-selected-packages >> is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then what's the Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: I guess reading a variable is faster than recursing over the elpa directory. Lars> --- Lars> Store here packages installed explicitly by user. Lars> --- Lars> Does 2) there get that right, or does it contain all packages installed, Lars> explicitly or not? It contains the packages I installed using 'i' in list-packages, but not their automatically installed dependencies. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-05 11:51 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-05 13:14 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-05 19:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-05 13:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:51:00 +0200, Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> said: >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:24 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: Lars> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: >>> Iʼm not convinced thatʼs necessary. I just did the following: >>> >>> 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages => no package-selected-packages >>> setting >>> 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packagesʼ => package-selected-packages >>> is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then what's the Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: Of course one use case that breaks is to do emacs-29->emacs-28, *delete* some packages, and then go back to emacs-29, which will pick up the old multi-session value. I guess we could change emacs-29 to refresh the multi-session value every time you run `list-packages'. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-05 13:14 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-05 19:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-06 8:18 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-05 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then > Lars> what's the > Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: So it just caches data to speed things up, I guess? > Of course one use case that breaks is to do > > emacs-29->emacs-28, *delete* some packages, and then go back to > emacs-29, which will pick up the old multi-session value. > > I guess we could change emacs-29 to refresh the multi-session value > every time you run `list-packages'. Hm. Or... refresh the value if the .emacs.d/elpa directory has fresher contents than the multisession variable, but I don't know whether that's faster. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-05 19:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-06 8:18 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 10:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-06 8:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:04:52 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: >> Of course one use case that breaks is to do >> emacs-29-> emacs-28, *delete* some packages, and then go back to >> emacs-29, which will pick up the old multi-session value. >> >> I guess we could change emacs-29 to refresh the multi-session value >> every time you run `list-packages'. Lars> Hm. Or... refresh the value if the .emacs.d/elpa directory has fresher Lars> contents than the multisession variable, but I don't know whether that's Lars> faster. How do we define 'fresher'? Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms (package--find-non-dependencies)) works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' being non-nil. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-06 8:18 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-06 10:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-06 13:49 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 16:45 ` jakanakaevangeli 0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-06 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > How do we define 'fresher'? I left that as an exercise for the reader. 🫠 > Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: > > (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms > (package--find-non-dependencies)) > > works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' > being non-nil. Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogether. That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as recalculating the variable. What are the actual effects of the variable? That is, what code is it supposed to speed up? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-06 10:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-06 13:49 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 14:30 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 16:45 ` jakanakaevangeli 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-06 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas, Thierry Volpiatto >>>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:00 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: Lars> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: >> How do we define 'fresher'? Lars> I left that as an exercise for the reader. 🫠 >> Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: >> >> (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms >> (package--find-non-dependencies)) >> >> works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' >> being non-nil. Lars> Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogether. Lars> That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as Lars> recalculating the variable. On further testing, using package--find-non-dependencies doesnʼt seem to work 100% correctly: installing a package in emacs-29 and then going back to emacs-28 has it showing up as 'dependency', not 'installed', in `list-packages'. Lars> What are the actual effects of the variable? That is, what code is it Lars> supposed to speed up? Itʼs supposed to allow people to deactivate packages without uninstalling them, I think, although Iʼve never used it like that, and Iʼm not 100% sure it works, since `package--find-non-dependencies' looks in `package-alist', which I presume contains all the packages found in .emacs.d/elpa Thierry, you added the defcustom, is there any light you can shed here? From my perspective we can stop updating the defcustom, but there are bound to be people using it for something. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-06 13:49 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-06 14:30 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-06 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas, Thierry Volpiatto >>>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 15:49:29 +0200, Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> said: >>>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:00 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said: Lars> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: >>> How do we define 'fresher'? Lars> I left that as an exercise for the reader. 🫠 >>> Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: >>> >>> (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms >>> (package--find-non-dependencies)) >>> >>> works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' >>> being non-nil. Lars> Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogether. Lars> That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as Lars> recalculating the variable. Robert> On further testing, using package--find-non-dependencies doesnʼt seem Robert> to work 100% correctly: installing a package in emacs-29 and then Robert> going back to emacs-28 has it showing up as 'dependency', not Robert> 'installed', in `list-packages'. OK, this is because emacs-28 doesnʼt always update `package-selected-packages' the way I expected it to. I think weʼve come full circle, and would have to have emacs-29 continue to update it, unless itʼs explicitly set to some distinct value (Someone™ upthread suggested 'external). Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-06 10:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-06 13:49 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-06 16:45 ` jakanakaevangeli 2022-09-07 0:09 ` Stefan Kangas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: jakanakaevangeli @ 2022-09-06 16:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen, Robert Pluim Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > >> How do we define 'fresher'? > > I left that as an exercise for the reader. 🫠 > >> Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: >> >> (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms >> (package--find-non-dependencies)) >> >> works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' >> being non-nil. > > Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogether. > That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as > recalculating the variable. > > What are the actual effects of the variable? That is, what code is it > supposed to speed up? Isn't it used for distinguishing packages installed automatically as dependencies from packages installed explicitly by the user? This affects M-x package-autoremove. And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges not in listed the variable. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-06 16:45 ` jakanakaevangeli @ 2022-09-07 0:09 ` Stefan Kangas 2022-09-07 5:38 ` jakanakaevangeli 2022-09-07 9:55 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2022-09-07 0:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: jakanakaevangeli Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Lars Ingebrigtsen, Philip Kaludercic, Robert Pluim <jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no> writes: > And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, > possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply > type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages > from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges > not in listed the variable. Can't this use case be supported with a multisession variable too though? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-07 0:09 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2022-09-07 5:38 ` jakanakaevangeli 2022-09-07 9:55 ` Robert Pluim 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: jakanakaevangeli @ 2022-09-07 5:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Lars Ingebrigtsen, Philip Kaludercic, Robert Pluim Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > <jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no> writes: > >> And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, >> possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply >> type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages >> from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges >> not in listed the variable. > > Can't this use case be supported with a multisession variable too > though? Indeed it can, sorry. I was under the false impression that multisesion variables were stored in a sqlite database by default, which isn't suitable for revision control. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-07 0:09 ` Stefan Kangas 2022-09-07 5:38 ` jakanakaevangeli @ 2022-09-07 9:55 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-07 12:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-07 9:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Lars Ingebrigtsen, Philip Kaludercic, jakanakaevangeli >>>>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 02:09:25 +0200, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> said: Stefan> <jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no> writes: >> And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, >> possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply >> type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages >> from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges >> not in listed the variable. Stefan> Can't this use case be supported with a multisession variable too though? Yes. The multisession variable would contain the same information, it would just not be in the custom file. (I thought the whole reason for this bug was that there was strong dislike for storing the selected packages as a custom variable, precisely because it disturbed version control) Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-09-07 9:55 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-09-07 12:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-09-07 12:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim Cc: Joost Kremers, 57503, Philip Kaludercic, Stefan Kangas, jakanakaevangeli Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes: > Yes. The multisession variable would contain the same information, it > would just not be in the custom file. (I thought the whole reason for > this bug was that there was strong dislike for storing the selected > packages as a custom variable, precisely because it disturbed version > control) Yes, that was the original complaint -- that a user may have different installed packages on different machines, but want to use the same .emacs file. And in that case, package-selected-packages would be wrong. So there seems to be different use cases. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file 2022-08-31 12:43 bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file Joost Kremers 2022-09-02 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2022-09-03 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-09-03 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joost Kremers; +Cc: 57503 > The variable `package-selected-packages` should not be saved to the > users init file (or whatever `custom-file` points to). Yet, for some use cases it should. So maybe we need to introduce a custom variable to choose whether it is saved as a normal user config or not. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-09-07 12:39 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2022-08-31 12:43 bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file Joost Kremers 2022-09-02 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-02 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-02 14:33 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-03 9:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 10:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 2022-09-03 12:25 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas 2022-09-04 10:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-05 7:37 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-05 11:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-05 11:51 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-05 13:14 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-05 19:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-06 8:18 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 10:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-06 13:49 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 14:30 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-06 16:45 ` jakanakaevangeli 2022-09-07 0:09 ` Stefan Kangas 2022-09-07 5:38 ` jakanakaevangeli 2022-09-07 9:55 ` Robert Pluim 2022-09-07 12:39 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-09-03 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
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