From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#70402: 29.3; Error in "(emacs)Package Installation" description. Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: <87y195tw2k.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87bk6ao3cy.fsf@gmail.com> <86mspujupa.fsf@gnu.org> <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30238"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 70402@debbugs.gnu.org To: tpeplt Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 22 14:36:10 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rysu1-0007fy-Do for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:36:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rysth-0004gg-O1; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ryste-0004gB-RG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:46 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ryste-0002xD-JG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rystu-0001sq-87 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:36:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 70402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70402.17137893107219 (code B ref 70402); Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:36:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 70402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Apr 2024 12:35:10 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45894 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ryst4-0001sL-9Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:33851) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ryst1-0001rv-9U for 70402@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:35:08 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1288240107 for <70402@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:34:44 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1713789284; bh=pVllB7ioaUq3zGVlrZmjKWetEzg3DCgksZQWUe+cpVA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:OpenPGP:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=JbCgzwYNTCbJrMTXxClOF53BFokIrnxJuDDxhx4S70nNC2D0onvtjRG84rrJ9jE7e 1VzF/U7rqFjIOfun50/HkvLPi7LgRMssFUz//8Pvk+mho7sKQg7Z8mAQ1OczIf69dO Kd07QcsobKhLQEPzfCOYDGEuA/KjF3qU6KBjhCUKxYmzr9HSMYH3RFnFmolaBqxlgu pkZF6nbLJdwqMmH3C7v2UELcGVOumZViLC6QXxa2FkUnjkacPUmDAiaFgzpRWcKqGb UZRpxYu9B6RsZhsQ26SbfYdepYq0C80Ubs/txd7nvkdpy2dM66lHzgf/LTy54oTVTS J7TsOCBiA/KwA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4VNPpC5xkLz9rxG; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:34:43 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87le5caujd.fsf@gmail.com> (tpeplt@gmail.com's message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:16:54 -0400") OpenPGP: id=7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66; url="https://keys.openpgp.org/vks/v1/by-fingerprint/7126E1DE2F0CE35C770BED01F2C3CC513DB89F66"; preference=signencrypt X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:283824 Archived-At: tpeplt writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> From: tpeplt >>> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 15:03:25 -0400 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The final sentence in this paragraph says that >>> =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 cannot be set via Customize= , but it is >>> possible in Emacs 29.3 to set that variable via Customize. Type the >>> following: >>>=20 >>> M-x customize-option RET >>> Customize variable: package-enable-at-startup RET >>>=20 >>> After this sequence, the buffer "*Customize Option: Package Enable At >>> Startup*" is displayed, which according to the Emacs user manual should >>> not be possible. > >> >> I think you misunderstand what the manual attempts to convey: that >> customizing this variable will not have the desired effect, because it >> must be set before reading the init file. > > If I understand you correctly, then there are two reasons, rather than > one, for why the variable =E2=80=98package-enable-at-startup=E2=80=99 sho= uld not be an > (customizable) option: > > 1. Because the Emacs user manual says that it cannot be set (it can). > > 2. Because setting the variable via =E2=80=98customize-option=E2=80=99 ha= s no effect (it > happens too late in the initialization sequence?). > > If the user manual says that "something" cannot be done and doing so > anyway would have no effect, then it should not be possible to do that > "something." When in doubt, "cannot" for Emacs usually means "will not do what you want it to" instead of "it is not possible to", or that is at least how I read the sentence here. That being said, I guess the manual could be clarified, or one could revert `package-enable-at-startup' to a regular variable? I am not sure what the policy on the last point is. --=20 Philip Kaludercic on peregrine