From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Visuwesh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61325: 30.0.50; Jokes in GNUS manual Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2023 19:12:26 +0530 Message-ID: <87wn4sb7el.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6391"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 61325@debbugs.gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 14:43:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pPkjG-0001XX-5r for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Wed, 08 Feb 2023 05:42:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Mon, 06 Feb 2023 16:01:50 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255128 Archived-At: [=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=99=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=95=E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AA= =E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=BF 06, 2023] I= hor Radchenko wrote: > Hi, > > I was just pointed to 3.15 Exiting Gnus, 3.16 Group Topics, and 8 > Scoring sections of GNUS manual. Apparently, at least some users find > the style of these sections insulting. > > While I do not object jokes per se, I do note that for a person outside > USA context or, sometimes, for a person inside USA context, jokes in the > listed section are simply distracting from understanding the described > topic. As a non-native speaker who also read the Gnus manual (except Searching and the rest), my general sentiment is that it is hard to read it because of its writing style but I don't agree that every joke hindered my understanding. I find it hard to skim through the manual later when I read it like "regular documentation" due to its writing style so I would be happy to see a rewrite that tones down the jokes but so far the Info indices have served me well enough, and Gnus runs smoothly (for me) after the initial setup anyway so it is not a bother. > 3.15 Exiting Gnus has > > Note: > > Miss Lisa Cannifax, while sitting in English class, felt her feet > go numbly heavy and herself fall into a hazy trance as the boy > sitting behind her drew repeated lines with his pencil across the > back of her plastic chair. > > I am not sure if it is a joke. I only feel confused about what > information this note is trying to convey. Also, at least one other user > find this section insulting. I am not sure what this person finds insulting. I am not sure if you referred to this when you wrote "female bullying" in another thread, but what I visualise when I read this is much more innocent and does not have anything offensive. OTOH, I do agree this paragraph sticks out and seemingly serves no useful info. > Further, the last sentence in > > =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99 > Suspend Gnus (=E2=80=98gnus-group-suspend=E2=80=99). This doesn=E2= =80=99t really exit > Gnus, but it kills all buffers except the Group buffer. I=E2=80=99m= not > sure why this is a gain, but then who am I to judge? > > is implying what? Is it just a joke? Or is it saying that the function > is useless? Discouraged? I am confused. This is yet another dry Gnus humour in my book. > 3.16 Group Topics > > If you read lots and lots of groups, it might be convenient to group > them hierarchically according to topics. You put your Emacs groups o= ver > here, your sex groups over there, and the rest (what, two groups or s= o?) > you put in some misc section that you never bother with anyway. You = can > even group the Emacs sex groups as a sub-topic to either the Emacs > groups or the sex groups=E2=80=94or both! Go wild! > > Forgetting about trying to joke around the word sex (the topic, often > negatively received by, at least, some Muslim users), I simply feel > disoriented while trying to read this paragraph. I can understand the > first sentence. Is the rest of the paragraph a joke? Or are there useful > pieces of information coded inside? > > After reading this info section, I feel that the amount of attempted > jokes is larger than the amount of useful information. This is > distracting (even though I do not mind an occasional joke, personally) If you replace "sex group" with a language group e.g. "Spanish", does the paragraph make more sense? I personally saw the use of "sex group" as a jab at those who participate in "online sex groups" but I may be group of course. > 8 Scoring has > > Other people use =E2=80=9Ckill files=E2=80=9D, but we here at Gnus To= wers like scoring > better than killing, so we=E2=80=99d rather switch than fight. They = do > something completely different as well, so sit up straight and pay > attention! > > For me, this paragraph is meaningless. For US users, it is some kind of > word play around sexual behavior, I guess. At least some users find "we > .. like scoring better than killing" uncomfortable. I object jokes that > make people feel uncomfortable. > > Also, I fail to understand what "kill files" really refers to here. Also > some USA-specific context? Or is it Emacs killing concept? Deleting > files on file system? Even without any knowledge about news readers (I was not even born back then!), I could tell that "kill files" were a way to filter your feed from the context. Especially since Emacs already uses the word "kill" to mean what other applications call "cut" (kill-region) and "delete" (kill-buffer). I don't really see a cause for confusion here TBH.