bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Andreas Röhler]

Hi,

I'm using eww to navigate running a test2speech app 
sentence-by-sentence. Thanks a lot enabling that!

Now would like to open a bunch of stuff that way, not just a single 
page. The buffer name should indicate the source somehow. "Instead of 
hard-coded "*eww*", add some initials from URL for example.

So when opening http://www.gnu.org/

buffer-name might appear as "*eww-go*"

Thanks again,

Andreas

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 10:27:05 +0200 Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> wrote: 

AR> I'm using eww to navigate running a test2speech app sentence-by-sentence. Thanks
AR> a lot enabling that!

AR> Now would like to open a bunch of stuff that way, not just a single page. The
AR> buffer name should indicate the source somehow. "Instead of hard-coded "*eww*",
AR> add some initials from URL for example.

AR> So when opening http://www.gnu.org/

AR> buffer-name might appear as "*eww-go*"

You can currently use `rename-buffer' to do this manually and AFAICT
things work fine. I'm not sure there's value in making it automatic
because it would generate a lot of buffers and code complexity. Maybe it
should be a tab system inside the EWW buffer instead, to keep things
contained.

Ted

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:

> I'm using eww to navigate running a test2speech app
> sentence-by-sentence. Thanks a lot enabling that!
>
> Now would like to open a bunch of stuff that way, not just a single
> page. The buffer name should indicate the source somehow. "Instead of
> hard-coded "*eww*", add some initials from URL for example.
>
> So when opening http://www.gnu.org/
>
> buffer-name might appear as "*eww-go*"

I've now altered `eww-browse-url' when used with a `new-window'
parameter so that it'll create new buffer names based on the host.
It'll look like *eww-www.gnu.org*, though.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Mark Oteiza]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:
>
>> I'm using eww to navigate running a test2speech app
>> sentence-by-sentence. Thanks a lot enabling that!
>>
>> Now would like to open a bunch of stuff that way, not just a single
>> page. The buffer name should indicate the source somehow. "Instead of
>> hard-coded "*eww*", add some initials from URL for example.
>>
>> So when opening http://www.gnu.org/
>>
>> buffer-name might appear as "*eww-go*"
>
> I've now altered `eww-browse-url' when used with a `new-window'
> parameter so that it'll create new buffer names based on the host.
> It'll look like *eww-www.gnu.org*, though.

What happens when I navigate to another site in the same buffer?  Then
the buffer name is deceptive.  Both s and S show the site and/or title,
and the header line of the eww buffer always has both, so this change seems
strange IMHO.

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:

> What happens when I navigate to another site in the same buffer?  Then
> the buffer name is deceptive.  Both s and S show the site and/or title,
> and the header line of the eww buffer always has both, so this change seems
> strange IMHO.

Hm, yes, that's true.  And changing the name of the buffer as you follow
links isn't very nice, either.  I think.

Hm...  so perhaps I should revert that change unless anybody has any
other thoughts on this...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 23:41:40 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LI> Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:
>> What happens when I navigate to another site in the same buffer?  Then
>> the buffer name is deceptive.  Both s and S show the site and/or title,
>> and the header line of the eww buffer always has both, so this change seems
>> strange IMHO.

LI> Hm, yes, that's true.  And changing the name of the buffer as you follow
LI> links isn't very nice, either.  I think.

LI> Hm...  so perhaps I should revert that change unless anybody has any
LI> other thoughts on this...

I think there are several use cases. I've given my suggestions:

1) open a new buffer directly to a hostname or "go to" a URL: use that
hostname in the buffer title

2) follow a link to the same host (or domain) in a EWW buffer: leave the
buffer title

3) follow a link to a different host (or domain) in a EWW buffer: drop
the buffer title and just make it a number or something unique

Ted

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> I think there are several use cases. I've given my suggestions:
>
> 1) open a new buffer directly to a hostname or "go to" a URL: use that
> hostname in the buffer title
>
> 2) follow a link to the same host (or domain) in a EWW buffer: leave the
> buffer title
>
> 3) follow a link to a different host (or domain) in a EWW buffer: drop
> the buffer title and just make it a number or something unique

Yeah, I think this is a probably the best way to deal with it.  That is:
If you've opened a "domain-named" eww buffer (which is now the case with
NEW-WINDOW), then eww will have to change the name of the buffer if you
follow a link to a different domain.  But perhaps just keep renaming it
based on the new domain instead of reverting to <number>?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:31:52 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> I think there are several use cases. I've given my suggestions:
>> 
>> 1) open a new buffer directly to a hostname or "go to" a URL: use that
>> hostname in the buffer title
>> 
>> 2) follow a link to the same host (or domain) in a EWW buffer: leave the
>> buffer title
>> 
>> 3) follow a link to a different host (or domain) in a EWW buffer: drop
>> the buffer title and just make it a number or something unique

LI> Yeah, I think this is a probably the best way to deal with it.  That is:
LI> If you've opened a "domain-named" eww buffer (which is now the case with
LI> NEW-WINDOW), then eww will have to change the name of the buffer if you
LI> follow a link to a different domain.  But perhaps just keep renaming it
LI> based on the new domain instead of reverting to <number>?

Your call, as long as the logic is consistent and clear in the code,
separately treating those three cases. Then it can be amended or even
extracted into customizable hooks etc.

Ted

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:

> What happens when I navigate to another site in the same buffer?  Then
> the buffer name is deceptive.  Both s and S show the site and/or title,
> and the header line of the eww buffer always has both, so this change seems
> strange IMHO.

On the other hand, we also have other buffers that have names that
may become misleading after a while.  For instance:

(buffer-name) -> "*unsent wide reply to Mark Oteiza*"

Even if I remove you from the headers, the buffer doesn't change name.
:-)  So there's precedence.

Another option is to say that if the user has called eww in
open-in-a-new-window-mode, then all further RETs in the buffer should
also pop to new windows...  Then the buffer name would always be
correct.

The third option is to always rename the buffer in these cases.

The fourth is to revert to the previous meaningless buffer names, i.e.,
*eww*<254> etc.

Opinions?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Noam Postavsky]

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
> Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:
>
>> What happens when I navigate to another site in the same buffer?  Then
>> the buffer name is deceptive.  Both s and S show the site and/or title,
>> and the header line of the eww buffer always has both, so this change seems
>> strange IMHO.
>
> On the other hand, we also have other buffers that have names that
> may become misleading after a while.  For instance:
>
> (buffer-name) -> "*unsent wide reply to Mark Oteiza*"
>
> Even if I remove you from the headers, the buffer doesn't change name.
> :-)  So there's precedence.

There's precedence in the other direction too: when you do
dired-find-alternate-file the buffer name changes.

> The fourth is to revert to the previous meaningless buffer names, i.e.,
> *eww*<254> etc.

If the buffer name will be meaningless, setting
`list-buffers-directory' to the url so it shows up in the buffer
listing could be useful.

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Noam Postavsky <npostavs@users.sourceforge.net> writes:

> There's precedence in the other direction too: when you do
> dired-find-alternate-file the buffer name changes.

Hm, yeah...

>> The fourth is to revert to the previous meaningless buffer names, i.e.,
>> *eww*<254> etc.
>
> If the buffer name will be meaningless, setting
> `list-buffers-directory' to the url so it shows up in the buffer
> listing could be useful.

Oh, nice.  I didn't know about that one.  I don't think it quite solves
the problem here, but eww should be setting that anyway.  I'll make that
change.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Mark Oteiza]

On 25/01/17 at 08:50pm, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:
> 
> > What happens when I navigate to another site in the same buffer?  Then
> > the buffer name is deceptive.  Both s and S show the site and/or title,
> > and the header line of the eww buffer always has both, so this change seems
> > strange IMHO.
> 
> On the other hand, we also have other buffers that have names that
> may become misleading after a while.  For instance:
> 
> (buffer-name) -> "*unsent wide reply to Mark Oteiza*"
> 
> Even if I remove you from the headers, the buffer doesn't change name.
> :-)  So there's precedence.
> 
> Another option is to say that if the user has called eww in
> open-in-a-new-window-mode, then all further RETs in the buffer should
> also pop to new windows...  Then the buffer name would always be
> correct.
> 
> The third option is to always rename the buffer in these cases.
> 
> The fourth is to revert to the previous meaningless buffer names, i.e.,
> *eww*<254> etc.
> 
> Opinions?

I don't think I've ever used message-mode's buffer name to tell which
email it is, looking at the subject is easier.  I certainly have never
used eww's buffer names to tell what website they are on, seeing how the
urls or titles are presented plainly in 3 different ways.

IMO The original report doesn't make sense.  The buffer names have
nothing to do with being able to use and manipulate multiple eww
buffers.

I'd just revert.  Alternatively, it looks trivial to make customizeable.

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:

> I don't think I've ever used message-mode's buffer name to tell which
> email it is, looking at the subject is easier.  I certainly have never
> used eww's buffer names to tell what website they are on, seeing how the
> urls or titles are presented plainly in 3 different ways.
>
> IMO The original report doesn't make sense.  The buffer names have
> nothing to do with being able to use and manipulate multiple eww
> buffers.

I think there's value in being able to type `C-x b fsf RET' to go the
buffer that has the FSF web page, or whatever.  Especially for people
with disabilities.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Mark Oteiza]

On 26/01/17 at 07:16pm, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:
> 
> > I don't think I've ever used message-mode's buffer name to tell which
> > email it is, looking at the subject is easier.  I certainly have never
> > used eww's buffer names to tell what website they are on, seeing how the
> > urls or titles are presented plainly in 3 different ways.
> >
> > IMO The original report doesn't make sense.  The buffer names have
> > nothing to do with being able to use and manipulate multiple eww
> > buffers.
> 
> I think there's value in being able to type `C-x b fsf RET' to go the
> buffer that has the FSF web page, or whatever.  Especially for people
> with disabilities.

Unless you navigated to the FSF page from duckduckgo or any other host.

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:

>> I think there's value in being able to type `C-x b fsf RET' to go the
>> buffer that has the FSF web page, or whatever.  Especially for people
>> with disabilities.
>
> Unless you navigated to the FSF page from duckduckgo or any other host.

The use case here is that you hit a link that opens a new window.  Then
you want to find that window after a while.  There's no way for a blind
person to do that without a lot of work without sensible eww buffer
naming.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Mark Oteiza]

On 26/01/17 at 08:27pm, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:
> 
> >> I think there's value in being able to type `C-x b fsf RET' to go the
> >> buffer that has the FSF web page, or whatever.  Especially for people
> >> with disabilities.
> >
> > Unless you navigated to the FSF page from duckduckgo or any other host.
> 
> The use case here is that you hit a link that opens a new window.  Then
> you want to find that window after a while.  There's no way for a blind
> person to do that without a lot of work without sensible eww buffer
> naming.

Then make it customizable so as to not shoehorn every user into this
use case where no one ever navigates to different hosts in an eww buffer.

Also, to suggest there is no other way to solve this problem is
ridiculous, but you've dug in your feet and I'm not going to waste any
more time arguing with you.

bug#23738: [feature request] eww allow multiple buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Mark Oteiza <mvoteiza@udel.edu> writes:

> Then make it customizable so as to not shoehorn every user into this
> use case where no one ever navigates to different hosts in an eww buffer.

Well, this is only when you open a new window when using browse-url with
eww (which is not the default behaviour anyway).

> Also, to suggest there is no other way to solve this problem is
> ridiculous, but you've dug in your feet and I'm not going to waste any
> more time arguing with you.

Uhm.  I presented at least four different options here, one of which was
reverting.  How is that digging in my feet?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no