From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38173: describe-variable: Also tell user *where* variable was changed Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 23:06:57 +0800 Message-ID: <87v9rnx1bi.5.fsf@jidanni.org> References: <87pnhxyjxp.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <878solyfr2.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <9a2ece93c5474cdd68e6f7253408dba8@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87pnhwsmii.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <69ffb0e3-4616-4147-4888-cc2889694bb5@orcon.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="33973"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Katsumi Yamaoka , 38173@debbugs.gnu.org To: Phil Sainty Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 13 16:08:15 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuFi-0008a1-OG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 16:08:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46222 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuFh-0008T5-Hg for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:08:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60493) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuFY-0008Pf-9u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:08:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuFX-00011h-49 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:08:04 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51143) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuFW-00011P-Rl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:08:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuFW-0004oh-GO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:08:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87pnhxyjxp.8.fsf@jidanni.org> Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38173 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 38173-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38173.157365762918452 (code B ref 38173); Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:08:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38173) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Nov 2019 15:07:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59964 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuEf-0004nY-3y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:07:09 -0500 Original-Received: from cheetah.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.34]:38293) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iUuEc-0004nN-Tg for 38173@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:07:07 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Original-Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A737419B6; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:07:05 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-92-150.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.92.150]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D5549741958; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:07:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:07:05 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Reaction-Abaft: 487a8dea26b316f0_1573657625106_3616227029 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1573657625106:4107388458 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1573657625106 Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBAF7EFD5; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 07:07:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=zrpkgPFlDBwbOS/3S/W589tXMiU=; b=UxJYt/qQI3y/v OFxktbnQnE9oraAbjnY7y0PfhQiOoMPGKwJQxq5NChIhZN0Lpb9n/ycW7oplnvy6 7hJ3fBQEANAe6DuVIBQpA8jsSGPoeXIVDyaa8RqCtjkHl/ND09faB8XL5rtzvGuq dImDiOHGptChGhOsULbehDEX4HA0Xk= Original-Received: from jidanni.org (1-170-86-165.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [1.170.86.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a66.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 89439A2379; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 07:07:02 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a66 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:171493 Archived-At: This all has to be at the knowledge level of the user who has put his first setq in his first .emacs file. He uses describe-variable and is told some 3rd party has changed the variable too and wants to know who. PS> I'm somewhat inclined to suggest that IF something like this was PS> done, a global switch would make more sense. Indeed, the describe-variable docstring could mention: "if you want more details, set "global-variable-tracking" to t, and restart emacs. But note it will slow down emacs, so only use for debugging." PS> It still might not have the effect you wanted, though -- it's PS> possible to change the apparent / user-facing value of some variables PS> without changing the *actual* value of the variable at all. This is PS> because of the internal structure of lists in lisp... Sounds like a security / coverup risk. Maybe with the expensive global-variable-tracking turned on, describe-variable could double check for such tampering upon looking up a variable.