From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6436: 23.2; C-h C-h incomprehensible to new users Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:10:26 +0200 Message-ID: <87tva9u9fx.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <201006160818.59184.arne_bab@web.de> <87d0gyulwd.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="1122"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: Arne Babenhauserheide , 6436@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 22 06:11:12 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eRM-0018K9-0f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:11:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37970 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eRK-0008T3-EW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:11:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48285) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eRD-0008Sx-9I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:11:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eRC-0003b6-24 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:11:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:56327) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eRB-0003b1-Ue for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:11:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eRB-0003wU-OU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:11:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Marcin Borkowski Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 04:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6436 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 6436-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6436.156644704515131 (code B ref 6436); Thu, 22 Aug 2019 04:11:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 6436) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2019 04:10:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36915 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eQu-0003vv-V9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:10:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:33988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i0eQp-0003vj-3N for 6436@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 00:10:43 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB30E6A34; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:10:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CuYQ1zY7_ESf; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:10:31 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (apn-31-0-23-10.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl [31.0.23.10]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F194E6389; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:10:30 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <87d0gyulwd.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:165549 Archived-At: On 2019-08-22, at 01:41, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Arne Babenhauserheide writes: > >> The integrated help in emacs is a great tool for beginners to learn >> emacs, and C-h d, C-h k, C-h m and C-h t are extremely useful. >> >> Sadly the sheer number of help options made it extremely hard for me >> in the beginning to find out what help I really needed. Most times is >> was simply C-h d or C-h k. >> >> So I=E2=80=99d suggest to seperate the help options into two parts: =E2= =80=9Cneeded often by >> most people=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cneeded only in very specific situation= s=E2=80=9D. >> >> Then just put the first at the beginning of the help output (common help >> options) and in a next paragraph add the rest (advanced help options). >> >> That should make it far easier for beginners to find the help topic they= need >> (and I can safely tell people =E2=80=9Cif you need help, just type C-h C= -h=E2=80=9D). > > (I'm going through old bug reports that have unfortunately gotten no > attention yet.) > > I think the difficult thing here would be to figure out what help > commands are needed often and which ones are more obscure. For > instance, I use `C-h f' all the time, and I never use `C-h d', so I > think it just varies. FWIW, I've been using Emacs for about 20 years, and I just learned (or maybe relearned) about C-h C-d. OTOH, I've been using C-h k (but also C-h f, C-h m, C-h w and some others) quite often for many, many years. Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl