From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35887: 26.1; global-eldoc-mode minibuffer noise is very annoying Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:54:31 +0100 Message-ID: <87sgsy1snc.fsf@tcd.ie> References: <87sgt3k4w0.fsf@hysteria.proulx.com> <85tvdjd1gy.fsf@gmail.com> <20190524151617874644844@bob.proulx.com> <87woibbpxb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <9d84f6c2-a319-495d-a967-25c1c66cee5d@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="252417"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 35887@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com, Bob Proulx , Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 28 17:55:30 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeRk-0013Ti-Vh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 17:55:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37050 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeRj-00016c-S2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:55:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38701) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeRY-00015n-TH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:55:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeRT-0002jU-KA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:55:14 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:43373) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeRK-0002Y3-Bb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:55:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeRK-000471-83 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:55:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 15:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35887 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35887-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35887.155905888515778 (code B ref 35887); Tue, 28 May 2019 15:55:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35887) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 May 2019 15:54:45 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56917 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeR2-00046Q-M7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:54:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-f65.google.com ([209.85.208.65]:34798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hVeR0-00046A-52 for 35887@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 May 2019 11:54:43 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-f65.google.com with SMTP id p27so32551644eda.1 for <35887@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 28 May 2019 08:54:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd-ie.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QRfjRlUT2aMTclKSigztj5vUnWOosjXD12ay+i0QAek=; b=joV0Dg0ezJuBtZXhmzeVLGSapAgCScHZr0e/GzFSmsCacd6n8Nnk8nJi4rY0UYkvZz bZYkBRiBOwCugYW47cz0GV+wrT3SQjtZzXnE94X7NDQbHNyub+MZHrvvDhMsKXjMq1uY f2YCsyQ/D684ViLnsfShTpJw69iFlZp64gC4eqHUFaGredza2H5WQeZ2aBvMFf6IzHmc r/wzLQXi6OOoFubr9ly3oh3TrCNGupZtoDJMCe84+jI3gb2UmC9C8XEpbIkQxYTcRR1Q cIfIE1lLC2/tj7K/jVFMpGTwK6GSRaRY7Zy8sa3hVC4Iw1zaMxMcbwaekgQ5MTiWTcII C5oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QRfjRlUT2aMTclKSigztj5vUnWOosjXD12ay+i0QAek=; b=sF4sFPB4ToQyONmMy/moHOHi9can0wjZzVFLAX8YKrW5ayHMWdMUJQ7eCIaku+5lW0 ltyPZdM6wQK7YLvxbumXeH3gG00xE83X9QE4VOjhXSPqXHYXLjKrvCZ+iDtoqj3uACxj mxkfMXGT8nl2m1e2vA4dZbiVW0DelLFtG7zxj8nQEL2d2EEyPxZgwvbxO1HA90SiNw2H jjzlUPsi9X15sHZ3VOfNRg1TiL2NVPojeYM13NU1ssdJ8CxIdY8NDxfB19sXH6t+Qx0p t2vx0vkjfleR9lKyw3RdsFp7uFWu7VayBYlJIzeJotT6a1dIraPWjSqUhg92JR5XPAk/ 61xA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVOmp77AjAl0WDcQxLezRZx7t677ZGeMy0XNftK0QbPuQUna/LZ L1fVUEXiMrNZbANL8sf21p9Lhg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwgBM4dEmR2aqPsLgX0PgVcswKrmCHEudkY46xQggcpMRHmniYJC2Gb2OwOlK/fb5RsZP+F4g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:90c6:: with SMTP id v6mr79402411ejw.111.1559058874236; Tue, 28 May 2019 08:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([2a02:8084:20e2:c380:8cad:ae29:555d:852d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u13sm620665eds.4.2019.05.28.08.54.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 May 2019 08:54:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9d84f6c2-a319-495d-a967-25c1c66cee5d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 27 May 2019 15:31:33 -0700 (PDT)") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:159855 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> I turn =E2=80=98global-eldoc-mode=E2=80=99 off too, but I think it shoul= d be enabled >> by default to demonstrate to newbies that Emacs has the same feature >> that their IDEs have. > > Fair enough. But on the flip side, better that a > newbie should learn, early, that there is much more > to Emacs than first meets the eye. And learn, early > on, how to discover for herself such non-default > features. > > I disagree, in general (yes, abstractly, and such > things should really be decided mostly case by case), > with the idea of showing things initially just to be > sure users notice them. > > That's not a strong reason. We sometimes hear it > espoused also as a reason for turning on some shiny > new behavior: so users will notice it. Not a great > reason, on its own. We have NEWS for that (and > Sacha's tangents newsletter and... I'm not sure if the following philosophy is documented anywhere, but my personal impression is that it is considered more Emacs-y to default to disabling most shiny features, lest they come across as annoying or intrusive, and let each user pick and mix what they like. I agree with that, so I sympathise with the annoyance of enabling global-eldoc-mode by default, but in this case I feel like that ship has already sailed, and that global-eldoc-mode is useful enough in the general case that it might be worse to disable it again at this point. --=20 Basil