From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#60646: 28.2; delete-selection-mode Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:51:57 +0100 Message-ID: <87sfgd8hb6.fsf@gmail.com> References: <878ri5dihq.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13307"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, err291@mail.usask.ca, drew.adams@oracle.com To: 60646@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 14 12:53:17 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pGf65-0003Fp-0a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sat, 14 Jan 2023 03:51:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:253:fe0:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h15-20020a05600c314f00b003d99469ece1sm34548374wmo.24.2023.01.14.03.51.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 14 Jan 2023 03:51:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <878ri5dihq.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu via's message of "Sat, 14 Jan 2023 09:15:13 +0800") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:253351 Archived-At: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" writes: > Drew Adams writes: > >>> I would like to express my strong support >>> for enabling delete-selection-mode by default. >>> This is standard for almost all other text >>> applications and feels unintuitive not to have it. >> >> +1. I've advocated the same for decades. >> >> This should have happened when we turned on >> `transient-mark-mode' by default. And both >> of those default-behavior changes should >> really have happened long before that. > > I disagree, but we've had this argument before, so please just leave > things as they are. > > Thanks. Did we ever go through the length of making the sort of poll we had for show-paren-mode? I.e. * deciding to poll users on emacs-devel, * announcing on info-gnu-emacs, <62f50784-593d-b302-b8b6-6d614ec37737@yandex.ru> * collecting feedback on gnu-emacs-help, <9bc33df8-5c1b-cd82-f72e-6fc939990f37@yandex.ru> * debriefing on emacs-devel. <2aed65dd-bcec-8e0e-e48b-7664a041f98b@yandex.ru> Asking because a) delete-selection-mode sounds (IMO) like one of these options that meet the sweet (sour?) spot between triggering strong opinions ("Thou Shalt Not Change Long=C5=BFtanding Defaults", "But All Other Editors Do It", "It Is Surprising And Destructive", "It Is Natural And Convenient"), while being trivial to change in one's config either way, b) For all the hassle it might have been, the poll and discussion around it led to improvements to show-paren-mode, i.e. further fine-tuning of the defaults. I struggle to imagine how (b) could apply to delete-selection-mode, but then again my imagination is very limited. OTOH (a) might provide enough justification for a poll, especially when coupled with the recurring traffic that delete-selection-mode generates. (Thinking of e.g. these emacs-devel megathreads: * (2018) * <20100318185435.GB1522@muc.de> (2010) Oh hey, well, (b) might not be off the table after all: > The _only_ problem I personally have with delete-selection-mode is > that it also replaces the region created by the likes of "C-x C-x", > something that "most software out there" does not and cannot do. If > we were to change delete-selection-mode to replace only highlighted > text created by mouse selections or by shift-selections, I think we > could then enable it by default without much resistance, because > typing a character or DEL after explicitly selecting text is many > orders of magnitude less probable to be a mistake than when we make > the region active by other means. =E2=80=94 <83o9d5q1bi.fsf@gnu.org> Enlightening; I personally C-x C-x C-g without a second thought when all I want is to "jump to mark" (or I use C-u C-SPC). I use C-x C-x mostly for its region-activating effect (typically after C-y), rather than for its point-mark-swap effect, and I expect delete-selection-mode to clobber stuff I highlight with region-activating commands (C-M-SPC, C-x h, C-M-h, M-h, C-SPC + [move around]). But I understand how adding an option to control that would make sense)