* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
@ 2015-04-14 2:51 Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 3:09 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-04-14 2:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 20323
According to the previous discussions, we don't want to reformat code in
bulk. Still, it would be better to converge on one style eventually.
Regardless of how bug#20322 ends up, setting indent-tabs-mode in this
repository's top-level .dir-locals.el will be an improvement.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-14 2:51 bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-04-14 3:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-04-14 3:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: 20323
> According to the previous discussions, we don't want to reformat code in
> bulk. Still, it would be better to converge on one style eventually.
> Regardless of how bug#20322 ends up, setting indent-tabs-mode in this
> repository's top-level .dir-locals.el will be an improvement.
My life is a lot better now that I simply pay no attention to
these issues.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-14 3:09 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2015-04-14 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 16:57 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-04-14 12:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 20323
On 04/14/2015 06:09 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> My life is a lot better now that I simply pay no attention to
> these issues.
Then you wouldn't mind this change either, right? ;-)
The OCD people should feel a little better, and everybody else will just
move on.
Unless someone is particularly fond of the tabs-and-spaces mix we get in
indentation inside .el files, of course. But normally, mixing them is
considered combining the worst of the two worlds.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-14 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-04-14 16:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 22:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-04-14 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: 20323
> The OCD people should feel a little better, and everybody else will just
> move on.
Half of the OCD people will feel a bit better and the other half will
go bonkers.
But yes, I personally couldn't care less about the value of
indent-tabs-mode in emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode inside the Emacs sources.
[ The main point here is that it should only affect the Emacs
source code. ]
So feel free to change it any way you like. You can even have
a commit-fight-fest where people keep changing it back and forth, if
you like.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-14 16:57 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2015-04-14 22:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-16 20:15 ` Glenn Morris
2020-01-15 5:17 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-04-14 22:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 20323
On 04/14/2015 07:57 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Half of the OCD people will feel a bit better and the other half will
> go bonkers.
As a card-carrying member of the OCD club (not really), a definite
choice in favor of the opposition would still be better than no choice,
in my book.
> But yes, I personally couldn't care less about the value of
> indent-tabs-mode in emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode inside the Emacs sources.
> [ The main point here is that it should only affect the Emacs
> source code. ]
Yes, this bug is about the dir-locals file.
> So feel free to change it any way you like. You can even have
> a commit-fight-fest where people keep changing it back and forth, if
> you like.
Sounds fun!
I haven't seen much of support for the c-mode side in this issue, so
guess I'll limit the fight-fest to the emast-lisp-mode value, for now.
Anyone interested in the C side of this is welcome to join.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-14 22:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-04-16 20:15 ` Glenn Morris
2015-04-16 20:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-16 21:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-01-15 5:17 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2015-04-16 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: 20323
I've long since done what seems to me to be the sensible thing:
use a mode-hook to set indent-tabs-mode to whatever the (pre-existing)
file I'm editing seems to use.
I won't claim it's always right (for those files where the indentation
is mixed), but it's worked pretty well for me.
The fact that indent-tabs-mode has been added to dir-locals now breaks
this, since dir-locals take precedence over mode hooks (bug#1986).
So for me, this change increases the likelihood of me committing stuff
that does not match the existing indentation style. Ie, adding it to
dir-locals without untabifying every file (something which has already
been rejected) has made things worse IMO.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-16 20:15 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2015-04-16 20:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-16 21:30 ` Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-04-16 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 20323
On 04/16/2015 11:15 PM, Glenn Morris wrote:
>
> I've long since done what seems to me to be the sensible thing:
>
> use a mode-hook to set indent-tabs-mode to whatever the (pre-existing)
> file I'm editing seems to use.
>
> I won't claim it's always right (for those files where the indentation
> is mixed), but it's worked pretty well for me.
That sounds like a great approach, but not for this case.
> The fact that indent-tabs-mode has been added to dir-locals now breaks
> this, since dir-locals take precedence over mode hooks (bug#1986).
Why is that a problem? If dir-locals take precedence, then the result
will be that your commits won't use tabs, except in certain subprojects
like gnus or erc, which have set file-local vars differently.
That's the original intent behind this proposal: to converge all .el
files to one indentation style, eventually.
> So for me, this change increases the likelihood of me committing stuff
> that does not match the existing indentation style. Ie, adding it to
> dir-locals without untabifying every file (something which has already
> been rejected) has made things worse IMO.
You seen to consider the presence of different indentation styles in any
specific file to be the main problem. I disagree: most files already
contain both styles, and having different styles within the project is
not much better.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-16 20:15 ` Glenn Morris
2015-04-16 20:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-04-16 21:30 ` Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2015-04-16 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: Dmitry Gutov, 20323
> I've long since done what seems to me to be the sensible thing:
> use a mode-hook to set indent-tabs-mode to whatever the (pre-existing)
> file I'm editing seems to use.
Sounds like a good approach. We could do that in prog-mode.
> So for me, this change increases the likelihood of me committing stuff
> that does not match the existing indentation style. Ie, adding it to
> dir-locals without untabifying every file (something which has already
> been rejected) has made things worse IMO.
My impression is that most Emacs's lisp files already have a mix anyway,
and I don't think that's a serious problem.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2015-04-14 22:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-16 20:15 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2020-01-15 5:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-15 8:21 ` Robert Pluim
2020-01-15 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-01-15 5:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, 20323
Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
>> But yes, I personally couldn't care less about the value of
>> indent-tabs-mode in emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode inside the Emacs sources.
>> [ The main point here is that it should only affect the Emacs
>> source code. ]
>
> Yes, this bug is about the dir-locals file.
>
>> So feel free to change it any way you like. You can even have
>> a commit-fight-fest where people keep changing it back and forth, if
>> you like.
>
> Sounds fun!
>
> I haven't seen much of support for the c-mode side in this issue, so guess I'll
> limit the fight-fest to the emast-lisp-mode value, for now.
I see in emacs/.dir-locals.el the following line:
(emacs-lisp-mode . ((indent-tabs-mode . nil)
So that part of this issue has already been done.
> Anyone interested in the C side of this is welcome to join.
Does anyone object to adding the same setting as above for c-mode?
If yes, I suggest to leave things as is and close the bug.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2020-01-15 5:17 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-01-15 8:21 ` Robert Pluim
2020-01-15 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Robert Pluim @ 2020-01-15 8:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: Dmitry Gutov, Stefan Monnier, 20323
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:17:03 +0100, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> said:
>> Anyone interested in the C side of this is welcome to join.
Stefan> Does anyone object to adding the same setting as above for c-mode?
Stefan> If yes, I suggest to leave things as is and close the bug.
At the risk of inflaming the discussions: Iʼm strongly in favour of
having indent-tabs-mode set to nil for Emacs' sources.
Robert
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2020-01-15 5:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-15 8:21 ` Robert Pluim
@ 2020-01-15 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-01-15 18:12 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-01-15 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: dgutov, monnier, 20323
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:17:03 +0100
> Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 20323@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> I see in emacs/.dir-locals.el the following line:
>
> (emacs-lisp-mode . ((indent-tabs-mode . nil)
>
> So that part of this issue has already been done.
>
> > Anyone interested in the C side of this is welcome to join.
>
> Does anyone object to adding the same setting as above for c-mode?
What, use only spaces in C sources? Please don't.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2020-01-15 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-01-15 18:12 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16 9:46 ` Robert Pluim
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-01-15 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 20323, monnier, dgutov
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Does anyone object to adding the same setting as above for c-mode?
>
> What, use only spaces in C sources? Please don't.
OK. So how about setting indent-tabs-mode to t instead?
I prefer spaces myself, but I guess any convention is better than no
convention at all? Or should we just leave this alone?
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2020-01-15 18:12 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-01-16 9:46 ` Robert Pluim
2020-01-16 13:38 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Robert Pluim @ 2020-01-16 9:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: 20323, monnier, dgutov
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:12:03 +0100, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> said:
Stefan> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>> Does anyone object to adding the same setting as above for c-mode?
>>
>> What, use only spaces in C sources? Please don't.
Stefan> OK. So how about setting indent-tabs-mode to t instead?
Stefan> I prefer spaces myself, but I guess any convention is better than no
Stefan> convention at all? Or should we just leave this alone?
If we canʼt agree on a convention, then we should not enforce one =>
leave this alone.
Robert
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2020-01-16 9:46 ` Robert Pluim
@ 2020-01-16 13:38 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-02-28 23:06 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-01-16 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: dgutov, monnier, 20323
Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:
> If we canʼt agree on a convention, then we should not enforce one =>
> leave this alone.
OK. In that case, I don't think there is anything more to do here.
If no one objects within a week or two, I will close this bug.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode
2020-01-16 13:38 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-02-28 23:06 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-02-28 23:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: 20323-done, monnier, dgutov
Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> If we canʼt agree on a convention, then we should not enforce one =>
>> leave this alone.
>
> OK. In that case, I don't think there is anything more to do here.
> If no one objects within a week or two, I will close this bug.
No objections within 6 weeks, so I'm closing the bug now.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-02-28 23:06 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2015-04-14 2:51 bug#20323: 25.0.50; Emacs's .dir-locals.el should set indent-tabs-mode to nil for emacs-lisp-mode and c-mode Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 3:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-14 16:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-14 22:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-16 20:15 ` Glenn Morris
2015-04-16 20:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-16 21:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-01-15 5:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-15 8:21 ` Robert Pluim
2020-01-15 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-01-15 18:12 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16 9:46 ` Robert Pluim
2020-01-16 13:38 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-02-28 23:06 ` Stefan Kangas
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