From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:02:13 +0400 Message-ID: <87pq04hway.fsf@yandex.ru> References: <87sj52juwu.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <834nhh5x1y.fsf@gnu.org> <87ip5xp4yv.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83txpg509x.fsf@gnu.org> <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1360782223 1365 80.91.229.3 (13 Feb 2013 19:03:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stephen Berman , 13690@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 13 20:04:04 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U5hci-0006kS-0d for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from SOL ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gm20sm10519802lab.7.2013.02.13.11.02.23 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:02:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:41:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (windows-nt) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:71200 Archived-At: Hi Eli, Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > This is by popular demand; you can find my >> > questions about this and answers by others a year or two ago in the >> > archives. E.g., scroll-conservatively affects commands such as >> > goto-char, even if you move far away in the buffer. >> >> Do you mean the thread starting here: >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-06/msg01011.html and >> continued in bug#6631? > > That one, but also others. For a recent example, see > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13055 (although that is > about scroll-margin, not scroll-conservatively). > >> >> But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing >> >> recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's >> >> point of view. >> > >> > Alas, other users' expectations are different. >> >> I didn't see anything to that effect in the thread cited above; did I >> miss it or were such expectations expressed elsewhere? Again, I'd be >> quite surprised if anyone really expects and prefers the current effect >> of scroll-conservatively on Info-up. > > My witnesses are twofold: > > . No one spoke about this except Juanma, and no one said that > scroll-conservatively _must_ be confined to scroll commands. If I'm reading this right, the thread from 2010-06 has 8 messages and 5 participants. There is no way it can be representative of Emacs users in general. > . Since those changes were made, 2.5 years ago, I heard _zero_ > complaints about this behavior; you are the first one. By I don't think that's true anymore. You should at least remember the bug I posted relatively recently: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13133 > contrast, before that, when Emacs would sometimes recenter even > when scroll-conservatively was set to a huge number, there were > quite a few complaints and bug reports about that. Like I explained in the bug above, the current behavior creates problems in edge cases. So a users can choose the values that "work almost right, but not exactly". Naturally, many people might be okay with that. --Dmitry