From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:37:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28028"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: dsmasterson@gmail.com, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , michel@schi.nz To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 14 16:32:34 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p5TkH-00073Y-IQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 16:32:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RxY-0000Rf-20; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:38:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RxT-0000OC-0K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:38:04 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RxS-0006H8-Hv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:38:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5RxS-0000e5-Cj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:38:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ihor Radchenko Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59882 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 59882-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59882.16710250422453 (code B ref 59882); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 59882) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 13:37:22 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39328 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Rwn-0000dV-Lc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:37:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:42315) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Rwk-0000dC-9U for 59882@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:37:20 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0F4B240101 for <59882@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:37:10 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671025032; bh=Gr4nifMs3Zi1HNjroKOduCZ222EKSliwaLCk/EWd9mY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=muhapMOjb9B1Xo0G8ftJ//V1oGn5KH0LCR/txyCEdMd9CNR57ZgSYf1NjpX3tM4m0 tGFoz8njnAp+PEFGARKiwlfoYn7aIrailZqzOwllZ/LjrHEsljuqA9vadSPnnU5ZyP HX+Wtdbf77OGBRFT4lJZgdtoKdsQQzD6VWQegZ5UZ7LM09UsqeeXxTF6+A9TUGzBjQ 84pbSWG2A/xDldzHIwvjxnqZgNLQeQLvlg6RDD1OAFhCeSkoQTmQ6XmaTxE/Qyuf9u V0iQLMDxtRDSZVVczEBvW4tS0HnTBYVOzNDfZPPfmvXeiLk0/0XkLbs6wnb/ABOxfm q/IEqWVAOr5SQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NXGcj1F8Tz6tmN; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 14:37:08 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:250958 gmane.emacs.orgmode:151399 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading >> may cause unexpected consequences. See >> https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm > > I think org-mouse.el should be fixed not to cause such effects just by > loading it. It should do that only when it is actually used. Yes, we plan to do exactly this https://orgmode.org/list/87zgbqqukg.fsf@localhost However, it will be a breaking backward-incompatible change. And we have similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design). Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice. Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages. Including, built-ins, like rect.el. dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages. >> At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not >> being available without loading. >> https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@gargle.gargle.HOWL > > That's too vague: it talks about "whether a variable exists", which is > ambiguous. That a variable is not boundp until its definition is > loaded is perfectly expected, and I don't think defcustom changes that > in any way (unless you autoload the defcustom, which is considered not > the best style around here). > > So I guess some clarification is in order: what exactly was the > problem with that variable being "nonexistent"? Agree. See the quote below: https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/25497.41832.663858.836948@gargle.gargle.HOWL/ Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's name by entering 'org-goto', which (like 'org-go') is not enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at