From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13141: please review bug #13141 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 Message-ID: <87obgk5npd.fsf__36843.716671183$1358666249$gmane$org@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <415AF94149E240B7BCB28128E45D3135@us.oracle.com> <20130119232015.GA517@acm.acm> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1358666230 22218 80.91.229.3 (20 Jan 2013 07:17:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:17:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Alan Mackenzie' , 13141@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 20 08:17:28 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9k-0002Ye-BL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:17:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60476 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9T-0005BO-Dm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48675) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9P-0005BI-GE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9O-0005Gc-9N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35526) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9O-0005GY-6C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TwpAI-0007xR-6z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:18:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:18:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13141 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 13141-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13141.135866623630534 (code B ref 13141); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:18:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13141) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jan 2013 07:17:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40990 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9Y-0007wR-A6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:39489) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Twp9V-0007wG-5m for 13141@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:17:14 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95429707F6; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9F7FB1A3537; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:16:14 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:70081 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > Why not give the individual bug reporters a say in what they think > is simple? Your idea of making their life easier might not be > their idea. Why in the world do you think making life easier for bug *reporters* deserves precedence? The first principle of bug reporting is to get useful information for the debuggers. Over the 15 years that I've been responding to bug reports, I've had at least half a dozen cases where users deleted automatically added information which I then requested -- to no avail, since the reporters never responded. The cases where users fail to include useful and readily available information in plain ol' mail are legion. In general, users are notoriously poor judges of what information is useful. It might be useful to hide the automatically generated information in a MIME attachment, or add it at send time, and allow the user the option of displaying/editing it. > Let's give _users_ the choice. Let's let them decide what is "as > simple as possible" for themselves, individually. Bug reporting is not an individual activity. It is a community activity, and the needs of developers must take precedence over users' ideas of what's useful. If you think some information is unnecessary, argue it shouldn't be in the report in the first place, and get the developers to agree. Note that just because Stefan never uses the information doesn't mean that other developers don't.