From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50929: Add slurp-sexp and barf-sexp Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 04:04:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87o86zmhg5.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87czop2nre.fsf@posteo.net> <871r55w4dg.fsf@gnus.org> <87v92h1708.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40339"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 50929@debbugs.gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 05 04:05:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mipXb-000AHJ-NU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 04:05:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48628 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mipXZ-0000k0-O8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:05:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49854) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mipXO-0000jh-MM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:60841) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mipXK-0000qU-OF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mipXK-0003uc-92 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:05:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 03:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50929 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 50929-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50929.163608146414978 (code B ref 50929); Fri, 05 Nov 2021 03:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 50929) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Nov 2021 03:04:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mipWi-0003tW-DS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:04:24 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34284) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mipWg-0003tF-60 for 50929@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 23:04:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3RJob6woIuSRbhAYYubGdTwJ/7/ogXCebZAvu/zpvQc=; b=ZX5uIl2kFSXMm+mJTbzItH/BmH ybZpbNQpU17XB8lYWplNlHSovwObLEI5FvoR6EYG/BeEXRQlLbIYRdIa6WlBGxbtEhUVi2VfN3lrJ DKXf3nTE5Ir67cHkXuH86UrZUDKff3TazgvPZ51bhCZl4pN+4iQKBZfexo0H3uyEEACM=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mipWV-0000Sn-Uw; Fri, 05 Nov 2021 04:04:15 +0100 X-Now-Playing: Fairport Convention's _Come All Ye (5)_: "Sloth" In-Reply-To: <87v92h1708.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2021 08:31:03 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:218963 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: >>> I'd like to suggest adding the command slurp-sexp and barf-sexp to >>> lisp.el (perhaps after changing the names). These commands were >>> popularized by structural editing packages like Paredit, and allow the >>> user to quickly pull or push s-expressions into the current list. >> >> There's already paredit-forward-slurp-sexp (etc) -- do we need them in >> lisp.el, too? > > Need is a difficult concept: Paredit also has a raise-sexp analogue, so > lisp.el doesn't need that either (hence why I added slurp-sexp and > barf-sexp right under raise-sexp), beyond the fact that it has already > been added to the file. I rather think that raise-sexp is an indication that these commands do not belong in Emacs core -- it seems like raise-sexp was added in 2004, but nobody seems to have clamoured for getting a key binding for it, which would be unusual if it was a popular command. (And nobody has documented it either, apparently.) My feeling is that these commands are vital for people who do structural editing a lot -- but those people use paredit or similar. People who don't really don't think in those terms, so they don't miss the commands. So my conclusion is that we don't want to add these commands, so I'm closing this bug report (but if everybody else feels strongly that Emacs should grow a more substantial support for structural Lisp editing, I won't protest, but it should be just that -- more substantial, with a fuller set of commands (with better names) and an Emacs manual section explaining how it all ties together). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no