From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73709: 29.4; Doc of `file-newer-than-file-p' Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2024 06:11:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87o73kbsaq.fsf@web.de> References: <86h69msbhi.fsf@gnu.org> <87set6aytj.fsf@web.de> <864j5l4d2x.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7y0kgl7.fsf@web.de> <861q0o2xbe.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyk7trma.fsf@web.de> <86y12vyygh.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzee88m9.fsf@web.de> <86ttdhyarp.fsf@gnu.org> <87jzed6iql.fsf@web.de> <867cacvb3k.fsf@gnu.org> <86h69gt3xt.fsf@gnu.org> <87msj6tbkv.fsf@web.de> <86ttddqy1w.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Michael Heerdegen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12843"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 73709@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 16 06:12:05 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1t0vOG-0003CL-Gi for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Wed, 16 Oct 2024 00:11:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1729051846; x=1729656646; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=hmtd8Iy/3y5Y/tYZ8ip+1Kk0BO7qW4HQcpEymvD5v7Y=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=LzA7Z+N15AW57O+ILFkPjL1+isD9e46FZijCPChrQpaeB0YAKIZdZ3zRELTzzytP GTJQp0GXdTlfzHxzNL2YErIcbv3hS4whZ4rn9xrvCDAB0UslEAJu/2fn3I9bBdb9a Cu75/ZIBMYYHOPW1YtfVy5mnhVekQpsKaB1EolO+78EYDiKwb7bJImQdwFUBZOBN1 AFfExKe76nhddC8fZOzTXEmtz4mA9mnepPQDoKY7X+rLpBl8PXEF1e0PYjoK5BZHV TzoTIBl3WM2e5aVhQ0h8XoSNIhpalP7aPkzRYpQJIlJ62sf6EfRKjLrF3IZgmud4h JHb2t+1Ez8980KZ7iw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.75.138.198]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mvspv-1tq05R25W3-00sy8f; Wed, 16 Oct 2024 06:10:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86ttddqy1w.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 15 Oct 2024 16:46:03 +0300") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jtwqWRHCJhXGIhyTWCIbqyCIdk3bduY/CajNzNEZES3OPDMu5hK RglOwxdXVOxY7IeIaQ48l0ESRLNa4jUq+VQTqPNf7TtlphVv48kfDsPoA8LgwPZIFwVRYE8 V6NJdDpdRb5RSBXqNtudxw+g2nmxhFH3iBcaX1nxjXLNh3BwiT2Lc5CkEWmrkDK4y9dXRCU bOEjKibIBuNBJ5/hBhaGg== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:aaqRaA92xf4=;Xkp6pd2RCWKaMQvOx0ajAvhbmyM kDAnhPxbn0oGXS8ZZXzFPQmcUw+uxqfZ6Z8OIgqFKOYySW34XGNvmUC1SfLHPB0xRIOXXwfhT Nh6WmbN9aluT28xLjtp+tb2PVqp+SGR9GcPPBajw+YhXmmINFKoOyaQvsq32rT1oanfAkddzW qkvTxx1Fv7qTi2IygK7/ZUZVGngUSauBolwSey5Igu2/N5VNVOc9i387fUAfpdy/YlH6K7971 K6gKnBsqUWut6Dbrkw6sD9rk39MdMIRFqhygdRae+Reig0Pk2XgckTGDzQW5SBp8s+TF/Z+bX Hkeqm/HkTQXWJBCta7ruDbuI2ZtjiwGQTEfoEryMZcEHRyJiBBQkFi3H6bEq/6Uto96SR7K2J Qd3Ggpy7e88dyElDjInhcjbRxCF3V5BD5f9wRp1CINLOwqU/1FKm+A/Wc08ocTqU5j8H+Qy9L Uww/4b44A95Htp7z0OQBgQR71YqQ04rIepHZGJQloe1TLwKyQOmQI1H0rvDtGko+aHd5YjQ1k ObGHk3onNSwaKV/eefqlr+CsARlZFxmPRY6ZIYlWVqFHU78ayYb47TbZzO5f/JOHdJwuO5Q0q LZBLZlll1n6B3har817UkHKUKItBkAjlfwAaeDQYsMhyLULdhzWJhC3WNkRJ0Neorx20EyPbY TgwbRDweVM5I3s8HImek8EjhJFzDJGVxF9WK4fmtGbfsRr9qoVR1FRkSqtjcUZESpuoq+NQlu 0I34ZWJXYXlsyvGVRbSkztdUGlPfRbHun+E+6wZjctLasw32gGcNJLbY7Inet2cK5R9Y2fwW X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:293654 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > "Last saved" assumes the file is edited, but this function doesn't > care whether a file has been edited. "Last written to" might be > better. Ok - "last written" then. > But the problem for which I find no good solution is that there are > ways to make the filesystem lie to us about when was file last written > to: use set-file-times in Emacs or the 'touch' shell command or > anything similar. Sure. But I thought we want to explain the abstraction? So, if you don't want to lie, why not say "in general this means the times when the files were last written" or so? As you said we _don't_ want to go to the level of implementation and file system specific details - so why discuss them at all? There are always details a short description doesn't cover ("newer" also didn't cover them). Of course you can add that "details depend on capabilities and features of the used file system and the chosen implementation (Tramp)". We do say similar things in other docstrings, too. Michael.