From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20484: bug#20202: Considered Harmful 73d213: 'Comint, term, and compile new set Emacs' Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:07 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvp4jl7o.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87oa9otixb.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5703E15B.7080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87k2kcovt8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5704233B.4020103@cs.ucla.edu> <8737qzso88.fsf@russet.org.uk> <57045765.4000309@cs.ucla.edu> <87r3ei8vz9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <5705B246.10201@cs.ucla.edu> <5706764D.2010708@cs.ucla.edu> <282e74a937853505fddfea446c9bc46e.squirrel@cloud103.planethippo.com> <57067BF6.6000700@cs.ucla.edu> <83bn5ll5i8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1460121374 11834 80.91.229.3 (8 Apr 2016 13:16:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:16:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 08 15:16:09 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWGe-0001AN-NL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:49298 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1aoWFi-002LQE-GV; Fri, 08 Apr 2016 14:15:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83a8l5kypx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2016 22:25:46 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:116206 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, 20202@debbugs.gnu.org, 20484@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:58:07 -0400 >> >> >> Maybe the best solution is to stop messing with $EMACS by default (and >> >> hence change the behavior of sub-shells in negative ways for some >> >> users), and then provide an easy way for those users to get back the >> >> "fully featured" sub-shell they love. >> > I don't think this will satisfy users of those shells. >> >> I don't think "satisfy" is sufficiently well defined to be useful in >> this conversation. > > I think it is. > >> There's clearly a tradeoff to be made between bug#20202 and bug#20484. > > Experience has taught us that there's no real tradeoff, at least not > in the next few years. As long as shells are in use which want > EMACS=t, we must leave that in place. Both zsh and bash also check TERM=emacs, which isn't set. > They are mostly those who bump into this in Makefile's, where it is > relatively easy to switch to another name. It's inconvenient, but > easily fixed. By contrast, users of shells cannot always easily > change what their shells expect in their sources. Should we patch the Emacs makefiles to stop making use of $(EMACS) then? Phil