From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Pierre Neidhardt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#29157: 25.3; Eshell parsing fails sometimes, e.g. "date" and "sed" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:17:30 +0100 Message-ID: <87mv39v1p1.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87tvy9rm5z.fsf@gmail.com> <87lgjk7rpd.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <87lgjkoloe.fsf@gmail.com> <87shd5znzf.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <87po891o1t.fsf@gmail.com> <87po89ywv5.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <8360a1arlf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lgiui6qc.fsf@gmail.com> <83y3mu6ttn.fsf@gnu.org> <87indyi20r.fsf@gmail.com> <83vahy6si5.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1511687896 15575 195.159.176.226 (26 Nov 2017 09:18:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:18:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 0.9.18; emacs 25.3.1 Cc: 29157@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 26 10:18:12 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eIt4j-0003Gt-Uc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Sun, 26 Nov 2017 01:17:35 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from dhiov23k ([197.1.154.186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x63sm11373493wma.39.2017.11.26.01.17.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 01:17:34 -0800 (PST) In-reply-to: <83vahy6si5.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:140401 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > If you want to know that so you could always get the same responses as >> > from another system shell, then perhaps we should have an option to >> > tell Eshell to always invoke an external program (maybe we already >> > have such an option, but I couldn't find it). >> >> No, not like that, more like a friendly reminder: "this 'date' behaves >> the Eshell way, while that 'rmdir' is the system program". > > But the answer to that question depends on the arguments and sometimes > on the switches, doesn't it? E.g., Eshell's 'rm' can delete processes > and buffers, and unintern symbols, in addition to deleting files. > What exactly it does depends on the arguments. And if you invoke it > with -d switch, it will call the external program, but if you invoke > with -f or -i or -n, it will use the built-in. So just given the > verb, I don't see how you can have that indication. Wow, I did not know that. This is not documented in the docstring, but I just saw it is mentioned in the help message. That maybe it the root of the issue: what's the standard way of documenting 'eshell/*' commands? I think both `-h' and `C-h f' should document the same thing, it's confusing otherwise. Lest users suffer too much from the "Where did I find that valuable help again?" syndrom. >> > Isn't it true that a verb that doesn't begin with a '*' is _never_ a >> > system program in Eshell? >> >> I'm tempted to answer "no, it's not true", but we might be >> misunderstood. >> >> As far as I got it, the '*' is here to force Eshell to use the system >> program, while no '*' tells Eshell to use its own version if available, >> or the system program otherwise. > > So you want to have an indication when there's _no_ built-in > implementation at all, is that it? No. Basically if I write "rm" in Eshell, Eshell will _always_ call eshell/rm. Only afterwards it will make a call to /bin/rm, depending on the arguments. As a user, what I want to know is what Eshell will call _first_, because then I can know the starting point of what Eshell is going to do. Basically, my idea is simple: - If 'eshell/foo' exists, use some eshell-builtin face on "foo". The user will then know that s/he should lookup the documentation of eshell/foo. - Otherwise use the normal face. The user will then refer to the man page and the like. -- Pierre Neidhardt If the grass is greener on other side of fence, consider what may be fertilizing it. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEUPM+LlsMPZAEJKvom9z0l6S7zH8FAloahqoACgkQm9z0l6S7 zH/5Zwf/c8ZR4DRKgr1YjotRk19MEswwHEmZ/MJaebFYcsO8EcH2Fg4t1jYOJrMJ QHaRt+ZpKBjydOoP8O4+DRnEDG3J6IF1NRkBdTMescnJQBiPvO7K4gkZgDDMZ8D7 EysMyWmdqyhX0+rymVrFd/BK1ORTL/ZPkcDk1p0DVQ7diP/aruuLUKTqbEfAR9Aj XqeL3wK68ovM8dw9Px9oMcQe+S+tLxltU4q12KBi1hOI8BHUgWfr5KGkInlK9N3O Cu1rtYuwK/YiJ+jlYZjHDMZ+/JJSAn523LHpepNXgDS6IWnnkAbHLKpTUPvInyag 87rpz6ix9lmdCCW5ex6PhNiCTtUPsQ== =Zk7e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--