* bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system
@ 2020-11-08 9:15 Boruch Baum
2020-11-08 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Boruch Baum @ 2020-11-08 9:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 44513
Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable
file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value of
default-file-name-coding-system?
file-name-coding-system => nil
(default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil
default-file-name-coding-system => utf-8-unix
ref: thread on emacs-devel list "fixing url-unhex-string for
unicode/multi-byte charsets" ~November 6, 2020.
--
hkp://keys.gnupg.net
CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread* bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system 2020-11-08 9:15 bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system Boruch Baum @ 2020-11-08 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 2020-11-08 12:27 ` Boruch Baum 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-08 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 44513, boruch_baum On November 8, 2020 11:15:50 AM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com> wrote: > Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable > file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value of > default-file-name-coding-system? > > file-name-coding-system => nil > (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil > default-file-name-coding-system => utf-8-unix These are 2 separate variables, see the doc string of default-file-name-coding-system. One is for the user to set, thus nil by default, the other is what Emacs thinks should be the OS default. They are separate because Unix filesystems traditionally treat file names as byte streams, without imposing any encoding restrictions on them. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system 2020-11-08 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-08 12:27 ` Boruch Baum 2020-11-08 12:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Boruch Baum @ 2020-11-08 12:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 44513 On 2020-11-08 13:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > On November 8, 2020 11:15:50 AM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com> wrote: > > Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable > > file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value of > > default-file-name-coding-system? > > > > file-name-coding-system => nil > > (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil > > default-file-name-coding-system => utf-8-unix > > These are 2 separate variables, see the doc string of default-file-name-coding-system. One is for the user to set, thus nil by default, the other is what Emacs thinks should be the OS default. They are separate because Unix filesystems traditionally treat file names as byte streams, without imposing any encoding restrictions on them. I'm proposing that even the one that's 'for the user to set' should have a sane default. I'm a user, and it never occurred to me I needed to set that variable (among all the other emacs variables begging a customization). What percentage of users do you think install emacs and on their own initiative say, "Of course, I now need to set file-name-coding-system". If so, maybe it should be part of the official emacs tutorial (sarcasm)? -- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system 2020-11-08 12:27 ` Boruch Baum @ 2020-11-08 12:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2020-11-09 15:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-08 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Boruch Baum; +Cc: 44513 On November 8, 2020 2:27:03 PM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com> wrote: > On 2020-11-08 13:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > On November 8, 2020 11:15:50 AM GMT+02:00, Boruch Baum > <boruch_baum@gmx.com> wrote: > > > Shouldn't emacs ship with the default value of variable > > > file-name-coding-system being equal to that of the default value > of > > > default-file-name-coding-system? > > > > > > file-name-coding-system => nil > > > (default-value file-name-coding-system) => nil > > > default-file-name-coding-system => utf-8-unix > > > > These are 2 separate variables, see the doc string of > default-file-name-coding-system. One is for the user to set, thus nil > by default, the other is what Emacs thinks should be the OS default. > They are separate because Unix filesystems traditionally treat file > names as byte streams, without imposing any encoding restrictions on > them. > > I'm proposing that even the one that's 'for the user to set' should > have > a sane default. I'm a user, and it never occurred to me I needed to > set > that variable (among all the other emacs variables begging a > customization). What percentage of users do you think install emacs > and > on their own initiative say, "Of course, I now need to set > file-name-coding-system". If so, maybe it should be part of the > official > emacs tutorial (sarcasm)? I completely agree with the sane default requirement. Which is why the default is nil, and why users are not required to set file-name-coding-system: nil does TRT. You can see that every day in Emacs if you use non-ASCII file names, because Emacs encodes every file name it passes to the system APIs. The original issue, btw, was not about what users should do, it was about what Lisp programs processing and interpreting file names should do: they should consult default-file-name-coding-system if the user variable is nil, as it usually is. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system 2020-11-08 12:58 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-09 15:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-11-09 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Boruch Baum, 44513 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > I completely agree with the sane default requirement. Which is why > the default is nil, and why users are not required to set > file-name-coding-system: nil does TRT. Yup; I think everything here works as designed, so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-11-09 15:37 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2020-11-08 9:15 bug#44513: default value of file-name-coding-system Boruch Baum 2020-11-08 11:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 2020-11-08 12:27 ` Boruch Baum 2020-11-08 12:58 ` Eli Zaretskii 2020-11-09 15:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
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