From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9113: 24.0.50; auth-sources: .authinfo versus .authinfo.gpg Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:32 -0500 Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=A2=D0=B5=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=BE=D1=80_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=97=D0=BB=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=BE=D0=B2?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87liooyvmj.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> References: <87mxgcffq1.fsf@niu.edu> <87mxgcffq1.fsf@niu.edu> <87k44ffsdu.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87aa5aa38p.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87mxgcffq1.fsf@niu.edu> <87k44ffsdu.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87aa5aa38p.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87mxgcffq1.fsf@niu.edu> <87k44ffsdu.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87aa5aa38p.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87y5suuz85.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87bopq6xng.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87bopldu58.fsf@gnus.org> <87fwexduac.fsf@gnus.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328008326 25246 80.91.229.3 (31 Jan 2012 11:12:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:12:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , Roland Winkler , 9113@debbugs.gnu.org, Achim Gratz , Michael Albinus To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 31 12:12:02 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBd1-0000pM-Tp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:12:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46023 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBd0-0002Q9-Ui for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:58438) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBcv-0002Q4-HW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBcp-0008Fw-IS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:53 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:42738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBcp-0008Fj-FC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBd3-0003Ig-U6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:12:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ted Zlatanov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:12:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9113 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9113-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9113.132800831912677 (code B ref 9113); Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:12:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9113) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jan 2012 11:11:59 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46361 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBcx-0003IM-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:58 -0500 Original-Received: from z.lifelogs.com ([173.255.230.239]:36829) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RsBcr-0003IB-Tf for 9113@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:11:54 -0500 Original-Received: from heechee (c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [76.28.40.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: tzz) by z.lifelogs.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 297DE7E205; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:11:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: <87fwexduac.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:33:47 +0100, Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:55:57 +0800, Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:36:51 +0100, Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:18:30 -0500, Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:00:32 +0100, Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:21:19 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:56303 Archived-At: On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:33:47 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: LI> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> The encryption doesn't have to be strong. It could use a well-known >> secret that the user can override, rather than an actual passphrase, and >> then no questions will be asked. LI> Sure. This is what Firefox (etc.) does, and (most) people seem to be LI> satisfied with that. On the other hand, this is just obscuring the LI> passwords, so the difference between this and, say, LI> machine smtp.gmail.com user foo password base64:c2VjcmV0 LI> isn't huge. (I mean, it is a real difference, but I'm not quite sure LI> whether it's a difference with a distinction. :-) LI> So perhaps auth-source should just base64-encode password tokens by LI> default for Emacs 24.1? That would give the users less of an "EEK" LI> feeling if they're looking at this file, and somebody is looking over LI> their shoulders... On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:55:57 +0800 Chong Yidong wrote: CY> Or we could rot13 it ;-) Base64 or ROT-13 would make the encryption trivial to crack *and* would make the tokens unusable by other programs. I don't think it's a good compromise. On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:00:32 +0100 Michael Albinus wrote: MA> The problem is, that there is no default under which name a password MA> is stored [in the Secrets API]. Evrery application seems to use its MA> own naming scheme. We can probably work around that. I'm more concerned that there is no standard keychain for GNU/Linux or W32. These are completely optional services, up to the administrator and the user to install and activate. On most server machines, for instance, you won't find a desktop environment with a keychain or a GPG agent, although you may find a SSH agent. This solution is guaranteed to work only for Mac OS X. On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:21:19 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: LI> Stefan Monnier writes: >> Exactly. So, yes, I want Emacs to support the system's keychain tool, >> since it's the right solution for the job. LI> If that's possible, then it would indeed be a lot better than stashing LI> the credentials in a file. I'm not convinced it's better, see above. In addition, it's hardly portable: how would the user take his credentials to another machine? Another platform? It seems like a lock-in situation which I am not keen to impose on our users. As a default, it seems that storing the credential data in a temporary in-memory auth-source backend *by default* is the best solution. Then on exit or on `auth-source-save', if there is something in the in-memory backend, we can ask the user if he wants to save the passwords and where, with all the consequent UI choices. The user can pick a plain file, or a plain file with password tokens, or a GPG-encrypted file (with or without external support), or the platform's keychain service, if available. At that time the UI can modify `auth-sources' for the user. Ted