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* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
@ 2008-08-19 12:51 Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reuben Thomas @ 2008-08-19 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bug-emacs

Hi,

I have a couple of functions in my ~/.emacs that are useful, tiny, and plug 
obvious "symmetry gaps" in the standard functions. They're not even 
original; one at least has been discussed on the list before.

For simple.el:

(defun goto-column (n)
   "Goto column COLUMN, counting from column 1 at beginning of line."
   (interactive "nGoto column: ")
   (move-to-column n))

For rect.el:

(defun copy-rectangle-as-kill (start end)
   "Copy the region-rectangle and save it as the last killed one."
   (interactive "r")
   (setq killed-rectangle (extract-rectangle start end)))

goto-column fills an obvious gap left between goto-char and goto-line, while 
copy-rectangle-as-kill mirrors copy-region-as-kill (and has been requested 
and suggested before on more than one Emacs mailing list).

Is there some reason not to put these functions in Emacs? I'd be happy to 
supply the other obvious missing part (documentation for the manual) if that 
helped.

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org/ | resolute, a.  obstinate in a good cause (Bierce)







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2008-08-19 12:51 bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-11 13:46   ` Stefan Monnier
                     ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2012-04-11 12:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Reuben Thomas; +Cc: 739

Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

> For simple.el:
>
> (defun goto-column (n)
>   "Goto column COLUMN, counting from column 1 at beginning of line."
>   (interactive "nGoto column: ")
>   (move-to-column n))

This doesn't really seem that useful to me.  `C-u 9 <right>' does that
already.

> For rect.el:
>
> (defun copy-rectangle-as-kill (start end)
>   "Copy the region-rectangle and save it as the last killed one."
>   (interactive "r")
>   (setq killed-rectangle (extract-rectangle start end)))
>
> goto-column fills an obvious gap left between goto-char and goto-line,
> while copy-rectangle-as-kill mirrors copy-region-as-kill (and has been
> requested and suggested before on more than one Emacs mailing list).

This is a good idea, especially in read-only buffers.  What would the
keystroke be, though?  `C-x r c' is already taken...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2012-04-11 13:46   ` Stefan Monnier
  2012-04-12 16:06     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-11 16:04   ` Reuben Thomas
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2012-04-11 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 739, Reuben Thomas

>> (defun goto-column (n)
>>   "Goto column COLUMN, counting from column 1 at beginning of line."
>>   (interactive "nGoto column: ")
>>   (move-to-column n))
> This doesn't really seem that useful to me.  `C-u 9 <right>' does that
> already.

No, C-u 9 <right> only works if you're at BOL and if all chars occupy
a single column (e.g. any TAB will throw you off).

But, please don't define a new function/command, just put a interactive
property on `move-to-column' instead.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-11 13:46   ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2012-04-11 16:04   ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-11 17:57   ` Drew Adams
  2012-04-13  6:25   ` Chong Yidong
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reuben Thomas @ 2012-04-11 16:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 739

On 11 April 2012 13:23, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
> Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:
>
>> For rect.el:
>>
>> (defun copy-rectangle-as-kill (start end)
>>   "Copy the region-rectangle and save it as the last killed one."
>>   (interactive "r")
>>   (setq killed-rectangle (extract-rectangle start end)))
>>
> This is a good idea, especially in read-only buffers.  What would the
> keystroke be, though?  `C-x r c' is already taken...

The mailing list message in which I found this function suggested C-x
r v, and that's what I use.

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-11 13:46   ` Stefan Monnier
  2012-04-11 16:04   ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-11 17:57   ` Drew Adams
  2012-04-13  6:25   ` Chong Yidong
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2012-04-11 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen', 'Reuben Thomas'; +Cc: 739

> This doesn't really seem that useful to me.  `C-u 9 <right>' does that
> already.
> ...
> This is a good idea, especially in read-only buffers.  What would the
> keystroke be, though?  `C-x r c' is already taken...

It is appropriate to file enhancement requests using `report-emacs-bug'.  But
discussion of whether to enhance Emacs following such a request should take
place in emacs-devel, not debbugs.

The list audiences and the list purposes are not the same.






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-11 13:46   ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2012-04-12 16:06     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-12 16:17       ` Reuben Thomas
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2012-04-12 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 739, Reuben Thomas

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> But, please don't define a new function/command, just put a interactive
> property on `move-to-column' instead.

`move-to-column' already has an interactive spec.  :-)

But what did you think about `copy-rectangle-as-kill'?  Seems useful to
me.

(On `C-x r v' as suggested.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 16:06     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
@ 2012-04-12 16:17       ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-12 18:19         ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reuben Thomas @ 2012-04-12 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 739

2012/4/12 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>:
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> But, please don't define a new function/command, just put a interactive
>> property on `move-to-column' instead.
>
> `move-to-column' already has an interactive spec.  :-)

It does, but it could still be extended to prompt for a number if one
isn't given; at the moment, as I originally noted, there is no
columnar equivalent to goto-char and goto-line. If it's not
appropriate to add this behavior to move-to-column, it could be a new
function, as I suggested; this also has the advantage that users might
reasonably infer the existence of goto-column from the other goto-
functions, and be surprised (as I was!) when they don't find it.

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 16:17       ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-12 18:19         ` Stefan Monnier
  2012-04-12 20:47           ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-14 11:32           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2012-04-12 18:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Reuben Thomas; +Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, 739

>>> But, please don't define a new function/command, just put a interactive
>>> property on `move-to-column' instead.
>> `move-to-column' already has an interactive spec.  :-)
> It does, but it could still be extended to prompt for a number if one
> isn't given;

Agreed.  Patch welcome.

> at the moment, as I originally noted, there is no
> columnar equivalent to goto-char and goto-line. If it's not
> appropriate to add this behavior to move-to-column, it could be a new
> function, as I suggested; this also has the advantage that users might
> reasonably infer the existence of goto-column from the other goto-
> functions, and be surprised (as I was!) when they don't find it.

I could maybe be persuaded to add a `goto-column' alias.

As for copy-rectangle-as-kill, that sounds perfectly fine to me.
[ Tho I'd much rather do it with M-x push-rectangle-mark RET ...move to
  other corner... M-w.  E.g. by letting `mark-active' take a third
  possible value `rectangle'.  ]


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 18:19         ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2012-04-12 20:47           ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-12 21:21             ` Andreas Schwab
  2012-04-14 11:32           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reuben Thomas @ 2012-04-12 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, 739

On 12 April 2012 19:19, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>>> But, please don't define a new function/command, just put a interactive
>>>> property on `move-to-column' instead.
>>> `move-to-column' already has an interactive spec.  :-)
>> It does, but it could still be extended to prompt for a number if one
>> isn't given;
>
> Agreed.  Patch welcome.

I'm glad to see that although move-to-column is a C function, I don't
have to write any C!

Diff against bzr head:

=== modified file 'src/indent.c'
--- src/indent.c	2012-04-09 13:05:48 +0000
+++ src/indent.c	2012-04-12 20:44:45 +0000
@@ -956,7 +956,7 @@
   return val >= column;
 }


-DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2, "p",
+DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2,
"(list (or current-prefix-arg (read-number \"Goto column: \")))",
        doc: /* Move point to column COLUMN in the current line.
 Interactively, COLUMN is the value of prefix numeric argument.
 The column of a character is calculated by adding together the widths

---cut-here---

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 20:47           ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-12 21:21             ` Andreas Schwab
  2012-04-12 21:27               ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-13 18:52               ` Reuben Thomas
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2012-04-12 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Reuben Thomas; +Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, 739

Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

> -DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2, "p",
> +DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2,
> "(list (or current-prefix-arg (read-number \"Goto column: \")))",

This is what "N" does.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 21:21             ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2012-04-12 21:27               ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-13  6:20                 ` Chong Yidong
  2012-04-13 18:52               ` Reuben Thomas
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reuben Thomas @ 2012-04-12 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, 739

On 12 April 2012 22:21, Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
> Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:
>
>> -DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2, "p",
>> +DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2,
>> "(list (or current-prefix-arg (read-number \"Goto column: \")))",
>
> This is what "N" does.

Great, so, new patch:

=== modified file 'src/indent.c'
--- src/indent.c	2012-04-09 13:05:48 +0000
+++ src/indent.c	2012-04-12 21:26:30 +0000
@@ -956,7 +956,7 @@
   return val >= column;
 }


-DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2, "p",
+DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2,
"NGoto column: ",
        doc: /* Move point to column COLUMN in the current line.
 Interactively, COLUMN is the value of prefix numeric argument.
 The column of a character is calculated by adding together the widths

---cut-here---

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 21:27               ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-13  6:20                 ` Chong Yidong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2012-04-13  6:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Reuben Thomas; +Cc: 739, Andreas Schwab, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

>> This is what "N" does.
>
> Great, so, new patch:

Committed to trunk.  Thanks.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2012-04-11 17:57   ` Drew Adams
@ 2012-04-13  6:25   ` Chong Yidong
  2012-04-14 11:33     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2012-04-13  6:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 739, Reuben Thomas

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> goto-column fills an obvious gap left between goto-char and goto-line,
>> while copy-rectangle-as-kill mirrors copy-region-as-kill (and has been
>> requested and suggested before on more than one Emacs mailing list).
>
> This is a good idea, especially in read-only buffers.  What would the
> keystroke be, though?  `C-x r c' is already taken...

How about `C-x r w' (for symmetry with `M-w') and move the binding of
`window-configuration-to-register' to `C-x r W'?





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 21:21             ` Andreas Schwab
  2012-04-12 21:27               ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-13 18:52               ` Reuben Thomas
  2012-04-16 12:52                 ` Stefan Monnier
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Reuben Thomas @ 2012-04-13 18:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, 739

On 12 April 2012 22:21, Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
> Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:
>
>> -DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2, "p",
>> +DEFUN ("move-to-column", Fmove_to_column, Smove_to_column, 1, 2,
>> "(list (or current-prefix-arg (read-number \"Goto column: \")))",
>
> This is what "N" does.

So why doesn't set-fill-column use N? Because of the default value?

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-12 18:19         ` Stefan Monnier
  2012-04-12 20:47           ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-14 11:32           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-16  2:05             ` Stefan Monnier
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2012-04-14 11:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 739, Reuben Thomas

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

> As for copy-rectangle-as-kill, that sounds perfectly fine to me.
> [ Tho I'd much rather do it with M-x push-rectangle-mark RET ...move to
>   other corner... M-w.  E.g. by letting `mark-active' take a third
>   possible value `rectangle'.  ]

Hm.  `mark-active'?  Anyway, that would make `M-w' not be totally
analogous to `C-w', so then `C-w' should be changed, too, perhaps.

But I think having the rectangle commands live in their own keymap is
kinda nice.  When you're in a rectangular kinda mood, you use them a
lot, and it's nice to have them separate from the normal kill/yank
commands.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-13  6:25   ` Chong Yidong
@ 2012-04-14 11:33     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2012-04-14 13:46       ` Drew Adams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2012-04-14 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: 739, Reuben Thomas

Chong Yidong <cyd@gnu.org> writes:

> How about `C-x r w' (for symmetry with `M-w') and move the binding of
> `window-configuration-to-register' to `C-x r W'?

I think that's a good idea.  I can't imagine that
`window-configuration-to-register' is a command that's used a lot.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no  *  Sent from my Rome





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-14 11:33     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2012-04-14 13:46       ` Drew Adams
  2012-07-14  2:17         ` Chong Yidong
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2012-04-14 13:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Lars Ingebrigtsen', 'Chong Yidong'
  Cc: 739, 'Reuben Thomas'

> > How about `C-x r w' (for symmetry with `M-w') and move the 
> > binding of `window-configuration-to-register' to `C-x r W'?
> 
> I think that's a good idea.  I can't imagine that
> `window-configuration-to-register' is a command that's used a lot.

1. That's not a great assumption.

2. `C-x r M-w' is better for symmetry with `M-w'.

Plain `w' has symmetry with lots of other things in Emacs (write commands,
window commands,...).  `M-w' is ingrained in finger-memory as a copy operation.
Better to keep `w' for something that actually has a `w' in its name/meaning.

(Yes, I know that Dired uses `w' as `dired-copy-filename-as-kill', but that's
presumably because `M-w' is still available there and the aim was to avoid using
a prefix.)

3. With `M-w', if someone binds `ctl-x-r-map' to a (prefix) key (e.g., a shorter
one than `C-x r'), then s?he gets `M-w' on it, with its "copy" association.  As
opposed to getting just `w', with no such useful association.  E.g., `<f10>
M-w'.

4. I really don't care.  If the above helps, fine.






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-14 11:32           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2012-04-16  2:05             ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2012-04-16  2:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 739, Reuben Thomas

> Hm.  `mark-active'?  Anyway, that would make `M-w' not be totally
> analogous to `C-w', so then `C-w' should be changed, too, perhaps.

Of course.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-13 18:52               ` Reuben Thomas
@ 2012-04-16 12:52                 ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2012-04-16 12:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Reuben Thomas; +Cc: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, Andreas Schwab, 739

> So why doesn't set-fill-column use N? Because of the default value?

Yes.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps
  2012-04-14 13:46       ` Drew Adams
@ 2012-07-14  2:17         ` Chong Yidong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2012-07-14  2:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 'Lars Ingebrigtsen', 739, 'Reuben Thomas'

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> 2. `C-x r M-w' is better for symmetry with `M-w'.

It's an okay choice.  If we were starting from scratch, `C-x r w' would
be better, but there's no point causing disruption for the sake of this
small difference.  I've committed copy-rectangle-as-kill as C-x r M-w.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2012-07-14  2:17 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-08-19 12:51 bug#739: Suggested small functions to plug symmetry gaps Reuben Thomas
2012-04-11 12:23 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2012-04-11 13:46   ` Stefan Monnier
2012-04-12 16:06     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2012-04-12 16:17       ` Reuben Thomas
2012-04-12 18:19         ` Stefan Monnier
2012-04-12 20:47           ` Reuben Thomas
2012-04-12 21:21             ` Andreas Schwab
2012-04-12 21:27               ` Reuben Thomas
2012-04-13  6:20                 ` Chong Yidong
2012-04-13 18:52               ` Reuben Thomas
2012-04-16 12:52                 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-04-14 11:32           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-04-16  2:05             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-04-11 16:04   ` Reuben Thomas
2012-04-11 17:57   ` Drew Adams
2012-04-13  6:25   ` Chong Yidong
2012-04-14 11:33     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-04-14 13:46       ` Drew Adams
2012-07-14  2:17         ` Chong Yidong

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