From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12507: Have I mentioned how much I hate Debbugs? Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:23:55 -0500 Message-ID: <87k3v9dgyc.fsf@kwarm.red-bean.com> References: <87d312hltc.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1349126703 7347 80.91.229.3 (1 Oct 2012 21:25:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 21:25:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12507@debbugs.gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 01 23:25:06 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TInU1-0006ba-Kj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 23:24:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39675 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TInTw-0000vM-42 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:24:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39525) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TInTf-0000AX-KV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:24:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TInTe-0001xZ-80 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:24:35 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:55470) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TInTd-0001x9-VQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:24:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TInU5-00052L-NZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:25:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Karl Fogel Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 21:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12507 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12507-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12507.134912667119321 (code B ref 12507); Mon, 01 Oct 2012 21:25:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12507) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2012 21:24:31 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36783 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TInTZ-00051Y-Ov for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:24:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com ([209.85.223.172]:48220) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TInTX-00051R-Oo for 12507@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 17:24:28 -0400 Original-Received: by iec9 with SMTP id 9so13977363iec.3 for <12507@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 14:23:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=d2oKj6UY87Xqu4hVWXzRD5o7OuUePMYIcLSHqRsW9ag=; b=ouuxt9fhai5RvC1xm65WRZ1r6YUjeaXLO/dRiYXfDo/TNIUJgfhoFXszC4SbuoP2AR K/WcGryUBIQrj26oyiwgzZOn6uJbfxkGjKOIh3Qka+rQ5z0fkDIWs58Ac9AyTX9L7jgk l4yhkRyZJK+fh+hzj9Pgfg3PNwkRuoYEONb6iKH7RipzQjFZWMQGbm4c/v0ZqtridMfJ Dg3G1nCtnsqFX/3NzYB+kk9oAcMOeBeEh+V+c1ivcV2whF5M13YsjTJwydyzRUZUylv4 hybAsSvihHRKHIG+C59xNHwpx49To5j4lY+JGy3mxVTcjuKNPuQwaWmgYAIwNkPJXVUV nz6Q== Original-Received: by 10.50.158.201 with SMTP id ww9mr7186220igb.22.1349126638683; Mon, 01 Oct 2012 14:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from kwarm.red-bean.com (74-92-190-113-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t4sm7398429igt.1.2012.10.01.14.23.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 01 Oct 2012 14:23:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 30 Sep 2012 21:50:19 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:65093 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: >What I would prefer is a general solution, along the lines I suggested (in= my >mail of 9/28): extend the general `version-control' to let users specify b= ackup >for particular files. I proposed adding an option like this, as one way t= o do >that: > >(defcustom version-control-overrides () > "Control the use of version numbers for backing up specific files. >Each entry is of the form (REGEXP-OR-VARIABLE . VALUE), where: >REGEXP-OR-VARIABLE is a regexp matching file names or the name of a > file name-valued variable. >VALUE has the same meaning as the value of option `version-control, > but affects only the files whose names match REGEXP." > :type '(repeat (cons :tag "File & when" > (choice > (regexp :tag "File-name regexp") > (variable :tag "File-name variable")) > (choice > (const :tag "Never" never) > (const :tag "If existing" nil) > (other :tag "Always" t)))) > :group 'backup :group 'vc) > >Then, to handle the file that is the value of variable `bookmark-file' you= would >just add an entry like this: (bookmark-file . t). I like this general solution. >We could do what I suggested in my message of 9/29: > >d> 3. Provide for optional backups, but if the user chooses not >d> to back up, then do not visit the file. >d> >d> With #3, the user would pay the price that Stefan mentions for >d> visiting the file only when s?he chooses backup. > >I based that on my understanding (still asking the question though, since = I'm >not sure) that you cannot back up the file unless you visit it. Stefan's >objection, and the reason we moved away from `write-file', is that a user = might >not want to visit the file, since that has some additional effects (e.g. a= sking >for confirmation if some other process modified the file). One thing I'm confused by: Why does backing up a file have anything to do with visiting it? Backing up just means making a copy. There is no reason why visiting the file in a buffer is necessary for that (surely `copy-file' does not visit the file, for example). Yet in this discussion, the assumption is that to get backups, we have to also visit the file. >But those effects are anyway desirable, IF you want to back up the >file. So it seems to me that what we want is to either (a) visit the >file and do `save-buffer' or `write-file or equivalent IF the option >value says to back up the file, or (b) do what we do not IF NOT. Hmm, this feels like a workaround. Instead, let's get to the bottom of why backing up and visiting are linked at all. >In any case, it sounds like we have all agreed at least on the need of >a way for a user to say whether or not s?he wants backups. >`bookmark-version-control' does not do that - it controls only whether >to use ordinary backups or numeric backups. So I think the first step >is to add an option so that a user can express that choice. Yes, but... Is it worth it to have even `bookmark-version-control' at all? The number of people who need backups on this file must be small, since most users presumably do not edit it directly nor even know where it is. A more general solution might be `bookmark-before-save-hook'. The few people who want backups can DTRT in the hook, and bookmark's code wouldn't need to worry about this at all. =C2=ADK