From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61281: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a \, b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= equals to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9C`?=(a . , b)=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9D?= Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2023 03:00:16 +0100 Message-ID: <87k00u8cb3.fsf@web.de> References: <87ilgfsaav.fsf@web.de> <87edr3s6v8.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38009"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Xie Shynur , "61281@debbugs.gnu.org" <61281@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 07 03:01:31 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDIY-0009fI-Qo for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 03:01:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDI9-0001tq-6y; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 21:01:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDI6-0001tR-IS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 21:01:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDI6-0007fv-AR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 21:01:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDI6-0004fI-39 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 21:01:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2023 02:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61281 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61281-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61281.167573523417885 (code B ref 61281); Tue, 07 Feb 2023 02:01:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61281) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2023 02:00:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50506 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDHa-0004eG-Uf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 21:00:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:38657) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pPDHZ-0004e1-BK for 61281@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2023 21:00:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1675735217; bh=5Xr3JRKAHzbVCJITUClDwRVAQxGOLz5Nw2GHpP1nTOo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=ZXs9R+W2Jw7O5/3K9B4NUoTWzI6EXjdbnI+ax9iXVYG3x3perv/u9Q1w+9XW37dP3 k1Xk8rLdYTCuJ6px0Q1lBIa02kobe19X73o4cDsiVAp3Jsie2zOPZqsVj2DYixB2on hD9GiFpnbAj0kWG4KCvzNuoHHFsMks37RKG2QcVy/uu54zmy0oTshe+rxUGQiA/sff 13rR56vVjiRe9DATLGI1fSL5aYP4672UBa04LlJzwIG1vllcR/kuGKTYMld+51Lc+H ZdyfMLYLFOuSXRy68iHn1Ljh1zu8V7e5XPPp3kbeKRL8tkSh24LTCnWyu6ijvv31NT dS48CLmdC/VjQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.59.210.57]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MxHYK-1oewFV2IyO-00xcoT; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 03:00:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 6 Feb 2023 16:43:39 +0000") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:FKFwVdBNu8RIqi6e52+SEtGXtTBnNQc9hBYHWYidYMvdUTVv8cG TiiPaquglo47GybqEge4M1nrFwfldJw8Lfm0Uv0VfS9cjU3otpB5sRveVp6M09SkFAQrx51 0CrCFyrNBgIeYff2CcaElZQARyEiXcMSRsSF5THXGVOHZ8wKMBMXkQNMwIEP1AP42HXKcT4 nV47i9AadkZv2zUiwh6xw== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:AOiUHXBD6dg=;ALqnqPtuPDzUOLrV7JOTO9J0g6d PvEUO89sd9Atr2anSROja7pQt1tQubL6eHUuDUijEHAFvKckNkfaHYzzoyDa7ZhdxFX09ohMp CCVa8T7CbOGZMLHqkDRMeqM6QBXvhzI6db3np2XNNi6wVs6ZMcpWt0m4opMKH/C7bI02YEIjd 79ShGah71+GBrok7oA+nECLnSURXEkaVLdSAtdh/R8KfHqoaOGUYnRvUIJhjwpDltqZolA0vQ ZibrKd6BWX1v2iykge84DiKCcVHqeYZ5S2oHpWKmOgSYE8X5zYXs1av68fSPgnni2hfWAvBie oiUNIVenU+sYB8LINXZKsYm2bjCKvvAVwkaXeWf75KuLZeT932RZi4tm/E1Lgnlr36Gh4Mewg +HKvQYWEj5QEhaXitWnX6N2a0qm02mWRz6Js4HH6O3+owI3K2oIEpSBByrnGGUsN9tUwpHXIo wIhFVBtnhfX3tvxu42r5hG3V18tN3R4LFBlgLoqyIEaWzxCDyaDQRGf5PuWn5xkYr/Bl47ZvE EyTP3vRgGaPn38tjCx9OqG75o8zeJhS6cMK029XIJuHXbx9J0LFt7w8JDBoJNpoY6pK91B60Q W6YUWLEd6maxwUd/P3NbBMIpD/E40DuNP3RKu0Jjc1V22NA5pSV0WMo6yzJjx3FqZZ5tDbdyQ kswpF6P9Yc0nKqiGj8jNvYeS7SqQo545hTPFQePcbDfSaf3leK2iYqn/IpyJQ90ScSo5T430K 0knRT2hAvZSW9bPFheQEdWoExhEqcYVXx1ryRqNNL/fDwPW+Rp00NwGAAXHWPvbOHPmiYOz6 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255007 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > THEN the sexp `(a \, foo) should just return (a \, foo), > a list of three symbols. I missed that you are still talking about this thing. Yes, you can call this a bug, but given that we agreed that it is unlikely that the behavior will change, I somehow thought you were describing some other thing. > > Relying on the return value of that expression > > is calling for trouble. > > How so? On what basis do you think it's "illegal"? On the basis these things are implemented in Elisp. It is likely that this will not change, so I think we should warn users to avoid using the symbols with names ",@" and "," in backquote expressions directly (you can still prevent them being handled with quoting of course, so it's not forbidden to use them). Because of this "bug" and that the behavior depends on implementation details (also that of ",@", maybe it's also broken in some cases or works only by luck, dunno). > > > Agreed, but I don't think just describing those > > > expansions that way is sufficient. For one > > > thing, what's X? Whether certain chars follow > > > the comma immediately makes a difference. > > > > The author is allowed to add more details about > > how the reader parses that character of course. > > Author of the code? The original comment? My > mail? The author of the documentation improvement I suggested, Drew. I don't know who that will be. > The behavior depends on what X is allowed to be. > Is it something that parses (is read) as a separate > sexp? Is it any sequence of chars? Any sequence > of symbol chars? It is obvious that the Lisp implementation of the "`" macro receives symbolic expressions. It's a Lisp library. And only a comment in a file header, not the manual. > I guess at this point we understand each other and > can just agree to disagree. I think we actually agree on all things more or less but talked past each other. Michael.