From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Roland Winkler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#51621: 29.0.50; bibtex.el biblatex "2.1.3 Non-standard Types" support Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 14:37:39 -0600 Message-ID: <87jzcgjyek.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87mshekwo5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27274"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Leonard Lausen , 51621@debbugs.gnu.org To: Leo Stein Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 03 21:41:53 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZiS-0006xq-MW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 21:41:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZhi-0002hG-IS; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:41:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZhe-0002bU-Qr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:41:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZhe-0003UB-H9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:41:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From:To:Subject; bh=QcfYKxYBzG3avrNh4YBl7l5epOdHf0JBDhohpHe5rOQ=; b=cPMKIgWq1+NF54tQornHqGT+5yVNg+UHaINT7uG496eceIKOV+zbpipKF7/m3oSzIkBLZlSWenOKPk4F5zAbEd2dznMwhBEucaQbrbgLxSc6fYVUjuwlRfaWU5P1+ljTDUZzLnZ6IrPFnDiANls4Yv6ftoigfXDk1YT8toxATuju17XweyzG4VwZeRvovAZ3vl+IBdwqeJf1PMa0oWQgqdfe++rpcvmZws9azYCSCnBQKtx4/t0roWWqgMU9GWh7sjSjTX5JK7vreQ8okSBSP2K6d76L5GQ+NlYTcWKetjq2RqpAIArRWgVCTIO0gfIfne5lvTFfES9N+opwhVOs7A==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZhe-0002gs-1k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:41:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Roland Winkler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 20:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 51621 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 51621-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B51621.173325840810065 (code B ref 51621); Tue, 03 Dec 2024 20:41:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 51621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2024 20:40:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33094 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZgl-0002c0-GA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:40:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZgi-0002Yk-BE for 51621@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:40:05 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIZeV-0002uI-0l; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 15:37:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=QcfYKxYBzG3avrNh4YBl7l5epOdHf0JBDhohpHe5rOQ=; b=mu7KW7l2MMfxf1XJr6BI CF2xe7HTu3tGYfsyJThfWSZmb0pgnlGqayv9FlWjQzgyZn00ghCpU7QvUUgMe3xNTpfh0ySbvMvKS 8TMbVWmwh2McTK15n1/KnKQHvEOAAw9k2FatTb730wbKSywyoveCVCJwrQdwHXbNXtBKW4kv3bItb qDQ5MQVdH61z4OVZUGRPRmZTD5L6uekRgX84/GVcTrm/KVeze2wLQHrqyYUBqVSGmaC/ZY+RP76KO s8/fTIJO26cjOm49God4VsYF7F30S9q+Lyyqh6AGSifcMereKLK5Rm8utNUMNjwmhVKj62qBjkfkH XD1bTcevt3PhBw==; In-Reply-To: (Leo Stein's message of "Mon, 2 Dec 2024 11:23:31 -0600") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:296385 Archived-At: On Mon, Dec 02 2024, Leo Stein wrote: > I really wish this was more permissive. Looking at a .bib file, we > have no way of knowing the biblio style that it's going to be set > with. We also have no way of knowing whether the user is going to > parse it with bibtex or biber. The user needs to know whether she wants to use a bib file with BibTeX or biblatex and use entry types these programs can handle. Bibtex-mode cannot be blamed for this. > I am still missing something... as far as I can tell, the "dialect" is > just controlling which entries are valid. Is that right? But this is > not within the purview of whether we use bibtex, or biber+biblatex. It > depends on the biblio style that the user wants to use for setting > their bibliography. Beyond the defaults documented for BibTeX and biblatex, you are free to write your own bst style files, and you are free to customize bibtex-mode to your liking. Everything we discuss here refers only to user options of bibtex-mode. The defaults of bibtex-mode match the defaults specified in the documentation of BibTeX and biblatex. It would be confusing for users of bibtex-mode to deviate from that. > I'm happy to hear that there will be future improvements.=20 The goal is to facilitate the customization of bibtex-mode. I see no reason to change the defaults of user variables. > I sincerely request that parsing of entries be made more permissive =E2= =80=94 > not restricted to a list of entry types, or relying on the user to > make some customizations [I think most users are not going to discover > that it's possible to=C2=A0customize this]. It is a basic aspect of Emacs that users can customize its behavior. But Emacs cannot (yet) read the mind of its users and foresee the customizations they want. I have heard rumors that reading the users' mind will become a user option in Emacs 42. (But I do not know whether this option will be enabled by default.)