From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#59141: 28.1.90; Face :extend when all the line but trailing \n is invisible Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 00:41:35 +0100 Message-ID: <87iljmcr80.fsf@gmail.com> References: <871qqcdfvr.fsf@localhost> <83cz9wux9l.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7tfkby9.fsf@gmail.com> <83zgczs2sa.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16650"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 59141@debbugs.gnu.org, yantar92@posteo.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 11 00:42:18 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1otHBa-00048g-Af for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Thu, 10 Nov 2022 15:41:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83zgczs2sa.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:10:29 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:247561 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec >> Cc: Ihor Radchenko , 59141@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 23:19:42 +0100 >>=20 >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >>=20 >> > I said many times that people shouldn't willy-nilly use the :extent >> > attribute, just because it looks cooler in some situation. The intent >> > was and still is for faces not to have this attribute set, with very >> > few very special exceptions, like the 'region' face. But people don't >> > listen... >>=20 >> FWIW, my motivation for setting :extend on outline headings doesn't stem >> from aesthetics. >>=20 >> Clearly delineating "sections" with colored backgrounds that span the >> whole window width is a neat visual aid, IME; > > Do you see a contradiction between the last two sentences? Aren't > "neat visual aid" and "aesthetics" synonyms? "Visual aid" evokes accessibility and ergonomics; "aesthetics" are only tangentially related to those concepts, in my understanding at least. I would not consider them synonyms, FWIW. AFAIU, accessibility and aesthetics are both connected to individual preferences, and they're not completely independent; I still believe that "making sections easier to spot" and "making sections prettier" should not be conflated. >> So this "visual aid" aspect is why I suspect reporters think being able >> to :extend outline heading backgrounds is about as desirable as >> :extending the hl-line or region faces, and it's a shame it breaks down >> when folding. > > My suggestion is to use "other means" for such cues. Especially if > you want to have that in modes that hide text, such as Org. The > :extend attribute wasn't intended to support this usage. Sure, and I'll take this opportunity to thank everyone who's worked on outline.el and icons.el these past months - margin indicators and icon-backed buttons are very welcome additions! >> It's not a critical feature to be missing, and that motivation does not >> invalidate the implementation challenges you highlight. I just wanted >> to spell this point out FTR, as I didn't feel "it looks cooler" conveyed >> it quite as convincingly =F0=9F=99=82 > > I don't see the difference, really. "Cool" isn't a derogatory > adjective, or at least I didn't mean it to be so. My point wasn't to denounce derogatoryness but to try to reframe the motivation for the feature. "Cool" does not suggest forethought, "willy-nilly" does not suggest purpose; I think people who want :extended backgrounds lack for neither forethought nor purpose. (And I felt like it was worth making that point because it was not discussed the last time around, AFAIR. In bug#52587, I mostly rambled about the =E2=80=9Cabstract sense of what is and is not "part" of the subse= ction to hide=E2=80=9D; I don't recall us going into aesthetics nor accessibility) Wouldn't want to belabor the point though; if I'm the only one who thinks this distinction is any use, that's fair; apologies for the noise.