From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:50:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87ilg4qp14.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30366"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 61496@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 14 15:51:41 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwej-0007hb-GN for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:51:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe9-0008W9-At; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:51:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe7-0008Vc-6G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:51:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe6-0000ix-UV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:51:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe6-000318-RR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:51:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167638626111582 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 14:51:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 14:51:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe4-00030j-Lt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:51:01 -0500 Original-Received: from relayout03.e.movistar.es ([86.109.101.203]:49285 helo=relayout03-redir.e.movistar.es) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRwe3-00030U-4U for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:50:59 -0500 Original-Received: from sky (73.red-81-39-121.dynamicip.rima-tde.net [81.39.121.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: 981711563@telefonica.net) by relayout03.e.movistar.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4PGPK51cBzzMm64; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:50:48 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 14 Feb 2023 16:13:24 +0200") X-TnetOut-Country: IP: 81.39.121.73 | Country: ES X-TnetOut-Information: AntiSPAM and AntiVIRUS on relayout03 X-TnetOut-MsgID: 4PGPK51cBzzMm64.A1514 X-TnetOut-SpamCheck: no es spam, clean X-TnetOut-From: ofv@wanadoo.es X-TnetOut-Watermark: 1676991052.56203@IrfxQlzoag8or7HB7i2XfQ X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255600 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > . I suggest that the "special" value which means "use >> > frame-title-format" will be t, not nil, so that users who want it >> > set it explicitly, not by some omission. >> >> The purpose of changing the default is based partly on the idea that, >> very likely, the user will want to keep icon-title-format in sync with >> frame-title-format. So not having to do anything to achieve that is a >> feature, not a bug. > > We are mis-communicating. My point is that the value nil means "don't > display this". E.g., try setting mode-line-format or > frame-title-format to nil, and observe the effect. I don't object to use `t' instead of `nil'. I object to leaving the default as is. >> > and it is quite possible that someone out there does want/expect >> > the default value to be a string. >> >> I have no idea how this can be. > > Please believe me and my gray hair: with Emacs, anything that is just > possible is usually done by someone out there. You already have a real case of a broken setup (mine). Furthermore, the people that depend on the contents of the window title to automate things on their machines are the most likely to set frame-title-format, and thus it is practically guaranteed that having a working icon-title-format on its current incarnation will be problematic for them. >> If this is your final decision, it's better to discard the whole >> proposal, as it gives little benefit. > > I disagree. I think it will allow you and others in your situation to > have the problem solved, icon-title-format already broke my customization, and I already fixed it on my .emacs.el. This is not about me, it is about avoiding the pain I went through to others. > while not risking breaking someone's > unrelated customizations. I don't understand the urge to have it > solved automagically, even for those who are affected by the changes > in Emacs 29. This is about a real group of users for which this issue can cause lots of disruption and frustration (Emacs' window title switching to the contents of icon-title-format when the user jumps to other virtual desktop is far from obvious) vs an hypothetical group of users that somehow put on their config an effectless variable on a way that causes the interpreter to throw an error on their face. For which group do you expect more bug reports?