* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
@ 2021-09-19 16:24 Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-19 16:53 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-09-19 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 50679
I like the new outline-minor-mode-cycle option, but it becomes annoying
in combination with tab-always-indent set to 'complete, because outline
takes over, even if I don't expect it.
Replacing the (outline-on-heading-p) check with
(looking-at outline-regexp)
or
(and (bolp) (looking-at outline-regexp))
improves the experience for me, but I am not sure if
this is a general improvement. Could it make sense to have this as a
configurable option, or check the value of tab-always-indent and DWIM?
In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 12, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw scroll bars)
of 2021-09-18 built on icterid
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Philip K.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-19 16:24 bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-19 16:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-19 20:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-19 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679
> I like the new outline-minor-mode-cycle option, but it becomes annoying
> in combination with tab-always-indent set to 'complete, because outline
> takes over, even if I don't expect it.
This is a known problem without a good solution.
It misbehaves even when tab-always-indent is set to 't'.
> Replacing the (outline-on-heading-p) check with
>
> (looking-at outline-regexp)
>
> or
>
> (and (bolp) (looking-at outline-regexp))
>
> improves the experience for me, but I am not sure if
> this is a general improvement. Could it make sense to have this as a
> configurable option, or check the value of tab-always-indent and DWIM?
So you propose to cycle only at the beginning of the line?
But when tab-always-indent is set to 't', sometimes typing TAB
at the beginning of the line is expected to indent the line
instead of cycling outlines.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-19 16:53 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-19 20:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-20 7:02 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-09-19 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: 50679
Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:
>> Replacing the (outline-on-heading-p) check with
>>
>> (looking-at outline-regexp)
>>
>> or
>>
>> (and (bolp) (looking-at outline-regexp))
>>
>> improves the experience for me, but I am not sure if
>> this is a general improvement. Could it make sense to have this as a
>> configurable option, or check the value of tab-always-indent and DWIM?
>
> So you propose to cycle only at the beginning of the line?
> But when tab-always-indent is set to 't', sometimes typing TAB
> at the beginning of the line is expected to indent the line
> instead of cycling outlines.
I didn't necessarily propose anything, it might only be able to solve
this using a option like
(defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-predicate ...)
as to allow for users to configure cycling as they see fit. Of course if
some consistent behaviour could be found that respects other options and
modes, then something automatic could also be used.
--
Philip Kaludercic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-19 20:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-20 7:02 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-20 15:25 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-20 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679
> I didn't necessarily propose anything, it might only be able to solve
> this using a option like
>
> (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-predicate ...)
>
> as to allow for users to configure cycling as they see fit. Of course if
> some consistent behaviour could be found that respects other options and
> modes, then something automatic could also be used.
Probably offloading the decision to the users with a customizable option
is all what we can do here, indeed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 7:02 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-20 15:25 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-20 15:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-20 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679
>> I didn't necessarily propose anything, it might only be able to solve
>> this using a option like
>>
>> (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-predicate ...)
>>
>> as to allow for users to configure cycling as they see fit. Of course if
>> some consistent behaviour could be found that respects other options and
>> modes, then something automatic could also be used.
>
> Probably offloading the decision to the users with a customizable option
> is all what we can do here, indeed.
Maybe something like:
(defvar outline-mode-cycle-map
(let ((map (make-sparse-keymap)))
(let ((tab-binding `(menu-item
"" outline-cycle
;; Only takes effect if point is on a heading.
:filter ,(lambda (cmd)
- (when (outline-on-heading-p) cmd)))))
+ (when (and (outline-on-heading-p)
+ (or (not (functionp outline-mode-cycle-filter))
+ (funcall outline-mode-cycle-filter)))
+ cmd)))))
(define-key map (kbd "TAB") tab-binding)
(define-key map (kbd "<backtab>") #'outline-cycle-buffer))
map)
Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 15:25 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-20 15:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-09-20 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: 50679
Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:
>>> I didn't necessarily propose anything, it might only be able to solve
>>> this using a option like
>>>
>>> (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-predicate ...)
>>>
>>> as to allow for users to configure cycling as they see fit. Of course if
>>> some consistent behaviour could be found that respects other options and
>>> modes, then something automatic could also be used.
>>
>> Probably offloading the decision to the users with a customizable option
>> is all what we can do here, indeed.
>
> Maybe something like:
>
> (defvar outline-mode-cycle-map
> (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap)))
> (let ((tab-binding `(menu-item
> "" outline-cycle
> ;; Only takes effect if point is on a heading.
> :filter ,(lambda (cmd)
> - (when (outline-on-heading-p) cmd)))))
> + (when (and (outline-on-heading-p)
> + (or (not (functionp outline-mode-cycle-filter))
> + (funcall outline-mode-cycle-filter)))
> + cmd)))))
> (define-key map (kbd "TAB") tab-binding)
> (define-key map (kbd "<backtab>") #'outline-cycle-buffer))
> map)
>
> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
--
Philip Kaludercic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 15:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 11:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
` (2 more replies)
2021-09-21 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-23 16:17 ` Juri Linkov
2 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-09-20 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679, Juri Linkov
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 15:35, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
> Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:
>
>>>> I didn't necessarily propose anything, it might only be able to solve
>>>> this using a option like
>>>>
>>>> (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-predicate ...)
>>>>
>>>> as to allow for users to configure cycling as they see fit. Of course if
>>>> some consistent behaviour could be found that respects other options and
>>>> modes, then something automatic could also be used.
>>>
>>> Probably offloading the decision to the users with a customizable option
>>> is all what we can do here, indeed.
>>
>> Maybe something like:
>>
>> (defvar outline-mode-cycle-map
>> (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap)))
>> (let ((tab-binding `(menu-item
>> "" outline-cycle
>> ;; Only takes effect if point is on a heading.
>> :filter ,(lambda (cmd)
>> - (when (outline-on-heading-p) cmd)))))
>> + (when (and (outline-on-heading-p)
>> + (or (not (functionp outline-mode-cycle-filter))
>> + (funcall outline-mode-cycle-filter)))
>> + cmd)))))
>> (define-key map (kbd "TAB") tab-binding)
>> (define-key map (kbd "<backtab>") #'outline-cycle-buffer))
>> map)
>>
>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>
> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
FWIW, I think it would be nice to provide a simple way to define other
“speed keys” in `outline-minor-mode [1], or even provide some
pre-configured ones [2].
Looking at the code, it seems that adding bindings to
`outline-mode-cycle-map` would achieve precisely that, but the name
of the keymap doesn't reflect that.
[1]: Cf. https://orgmode.org/manual/Speed-Keys.html
[2]: I personally use these speed keys in outline-minor-mode, which are
probably very similar to those from Org mode:
"<tab>" 'outline-cycle
"<backtab>" 'outline-cycle-buffer
"f" 'outline-forward-same-level
"b" 'outline-backward-same-level
"n" 'outline-next-visible-heading
"p" 'outline-previous-visible-heading
"u" 'outline-up-heading
"F" 'outline-move-subtree-down
"B" 'outline-move-subtree-up
"@" 'outline-mark-subtree
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
@ 2021-09-21 11:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-21 11:44 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 17:58 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-23 16:15 ` Juri Linkov
2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-09-21 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Augusto Stoffel; +Cc: 50679, Juri Linkov
Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@gmail.com> writes:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 at 15:35, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>
>> Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:
>>
>>>>> I didn't necessarily propose anything, it might only be able to solve
>>>>> this using a option like
>>>>>
>>>>> (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-predicate ...)
>>>>>
>>>>> as to allow for users to configure cycling as they see fit. Of course if
>>>>> some consistent behaviour could be found that respects other options and
>>>>> modes, then something automatic could also be used.
>>>>
>>>> Probably offloading the decision to the users with a customizable option
>>>> is all what we can do here, indeed.
>>>
>>> Maybe something like:
>>>
>>> (defvar outline-mode-cycle-map
>>> (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap)))
>>> (let ((tab-binding `(menu-item
>>> "" outline-cycle
>>> ;; Only takes effect if point is on a heading.
>>> :filter ,(lambda (cmd)
>>> - (when (outline-on-heading-p) cmd)))))
>>> + (when (and (outline-on-heading-p)
>>> + (or (not (functionp outline-mode-cycle-filter))
>>> + (funcall outline-mode-cycle-filter)))
>>> + cmd)))))
>>> (define-key map (kbd "TAB") tab-binding)
>>> (define-key map (kbd "<backtab>") #'outline-cycle-buffer))
>>> map)
>>>
>>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>>
>> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
>> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
>
> FWIW, I think it would be nice to provide a simple way to define other
> “speed keys” in `outline-minor-mode [1], or even provide some
> pre-configured ones [2].
>
> Looking at the code, it seems that adding bindings to
> `outline-mode-cycle-map` would achieve precisely that, but the name
> of the keymap doesn't reflect that.
I would appreciate something like this too, but you are right that it
sounds like a separate functionality. Compared to
outline-mode-cycle-map, this would most certainly have to operate on the
beginning of a line, otherwise apparently random keys would suddenly
throw the user around without them expecting it.
> [1]: Cf. https://orgmode.org/manual/Speed-Keys.html
>
> [2]: I personally use these speed keys in outline-minor-mode, which are
> probably very similar to those from Org mode:
>
> "<tab>" 'outline-cycle
> "<backtab>" 'outline-cycle-buffer
> "f" 'outline-forward-same-level
> "b" 'outline-backward-same-level
> "n" 'outline-next-visible-heading
> "p" 'outline-previous-visible-heading
> "u" 'outline-up-heading
> "F" 'outline-move-subtree-down
> "B" 'outline-move-subtree-up
> "@" 'outline-mark-subtree
--
Philip Kaludercic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-21 11:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-21 11:44 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 11:58 ` Philip Kaludercic
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-09-21 11:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679, Juri Linkov
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 11:27, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
> I would appreciate something like this too, but you are right that it
> sounds like a separate functionality. Compared to
> outline-mode-cycle-map, this would most certainly have to operate on the
> beginning of a line, otherwise apparently random keys would suddenly
> throw the user around without them expecting it.
I thought your point was that TAB for cycling also gets in the way if
it's available anywhere other than at the beginning of a line.
So I think it's actually the _same_ functionality, and only the naming
doesn't reflect that. To put it in a slightly different way, there
would be no need for a `outline-mode-cycle-map' if something called
`outline-speed-keys-map' (a keymap installed only at column 0 of
heading lines) existed.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-21 11:44 ` Augusto Stoffel
@ 2021-09-21 11:58 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-21 19:02 ` Augusto Stoffel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-09-21 11:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Augusto Stoffel; +Cc: 50679, Juri Linkov
Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@gmail.com> writes:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 11:27, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>
>> I would appreciate something like this too, but you are right that it
>> sounds like a separate functionality. Compared to
>> outline-mode-cycle-map, this would most certainly have to operate on the
>> beginning of a line, otherwise apparently random keys would suddenly
>> throw the user around without them expecting it.
>
> I thought your point was that TAB for cycling also gets in the way if
> it's available anywhere other than at the beginning of a line.
Yes, but Juri is right that there is a more general issue that tab is
never always appropriate. Just yesterday I ran into the edge-case of
trying to indent a line inwards, and instead of indenting it folded the
definition, because the line unintentionally began with outline-regexp.
> So I think it's actually the _same_ functionality, and only the naming
> doesn't reflect that. To put it in a slightly different way, there
> would be no need for a `outline-mode-cycle-map' if something called
> `outline-speed-keys-map' (a keymap installed only at column 0 of
> heading lines) existed.
How about both? If you just want to press tab anywhere, use cycle, and
otherwise use speed-keys? Or would that be overkill?
--
Philip Kaludercic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 15:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
@ 2021-09-21 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-23 16:17 ` Juri Linkov
2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-21 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679
>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>
> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
You are right, this problem exists only for outline-minor-mode,
so it should be rather:
:filter ,(lambda (cmd)
(when (and (outline-on-heading-p)
(or (not outline-minor-mode)
(not (functionp outline-minor-mode-cycle-filter))
(funcall outline-minor-mode-cycle-filter)))
cmd))
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 11:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-21 17:58 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-21 18:50 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-23 16:15 ` Juri Linkov
2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-21 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Augusto Stoffel; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, 50679
> FWIW, I think it would be nice to provide a simple way to define other
> “speed keys” in `outline-minor-mode [1], or even provide some
> pre-configured ones [2].
>
> [2]: I personally use these speed keys in outline-minor-mode, which are
> probably very similar to those from Org mode:
>
> "<tab>" 'outline-cycle
> "<backtab>" 'outline-cycle-buffer
> "f" 'outline-forward-same-level
> "b" 'outline-backward-same-level
> "n" 'outline-next-visible-heading
> "p" 'outline-previous-visible-heading
> "u" 'outline-up-heading
> "F" 'outline-move-subtree-down
> "B" 'outline-move-subtree-up
> "@" 'outline-mark-subtree
But this means you can't type all these keys on heading lines?
This is why I confugured it not to use self-inserting keys:
(let ((map outline-mode-cycle-map)
(cmds '(("M-<down>" outline-next-visible-heading)
("M-<up>" outline-previous-visible-heading)
("M-<left>" outline-hide-subtree)
("M-<right>" outline-show-subtree))))
(dolist (command cmds)
(define-key map (kbd (nth 0 command))
`(menu-item
"" ,(nth 1 command)
:filter ,(lambda (cmd)
(when (outline-on-heading-p))
cmd))))))
> Looking at the code, it seems that adding bindings to
> `outline-mode-cycle-map` would achieve precisely that, but the name
> of the keymap doesn't reflect that.
Do you suggest different keymaps? And indeed, these two are
quite different beasts each with own problems. So we need both
outline-mode-cycle-map and outline-minor-mode-cycle-map.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-21 17:58 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-21 18:50 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-22 16:09 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-09-21 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, 50679
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 20:58, Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> wrote:
>> FWIW, I think it would be nice to provide a simple way to define other
>> “speed keys” in `outline-minor-mode [1], or even provide some
>> pre-configured ones [2].
>>
>> [2]: I personally use these speed keys in outline-minor-mode, which are
>> probably very similar to those from Org mode:
>>
>> "<tab>" 'outline-cycle
>> "<backtab>" 'outline-cycle-buffer
>> "f" 'outline-forward-same-level
>> "b" 'outline-backward-same-level
>> "n" 'outline-next-visible-heading
>> "p" 'outline-previous-visible-heading
>> "u" 'outline-up-heading
>> "F" 'outline-move-subtree-down
>> "B" 'outline-move-subtree-up
>> "@" 'outline-mark-subtree
>
> But this means you can't type all these keys on heading lines?
> This is why I confugured it not to use self-inserting keys:
>
In my setup those keys only apply at BOL in a heading line. I never
type anything there.
TAB for reindenting might be a bit trickier. Apparently I never try to
reindent a heading line when point is at BOL, because I never thought
about a possible conflict, but I guess I would type SPC TAB in that
case.
> (let ((map outline-mode-cycle-map)
> (cmds '(("M-<down>" outline-next-visible-heading)
> ("M-<up>" outline-previous-visible-heading)
> ("M-<left>" outline-hide-subtree)
> ("M-<right>" outline-show-subtree))))
> (dolist (command cmds)
> (define-key map (kbd (nth 0 command))
> `(menu-item
> "" ,(nth 1 command)
> :filter ,(lambda (cmd)
> (when (outline-on-heading-p))
> cmd))))))
>
>
I can't find this block in outline.el, is this a suggestion for a
possible default?
>> Looking at the code, it seems that adding bindings to
>> `outline-mode-cycle-map` would achieve precisely that, but the name
>> of the keymap doesn't reflect that.
>
> Do you suggest different keymaps? And indeed, these two are
> quite different beasts each with own problems. So we need both
> outline-mode-cycle-map and outline-minor-mode-cycle-map.
Okay, those keymaps are active in the entire heading line, right?
I would prefer to only have a special behavior at the first character of
a heading line, in exchange of allowing _any_ shortcut key with minimal
interference. Org mode already does that with a simple customization,
(setq org-use-speed-commands t), so I don't think it would be too
surprising for most users.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-21 11:58 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-21 19:02 ` Augusto Stoffel
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-09-21 19:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679, Juri Linkov
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 11:58, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
> Yes, but Juri is right that there is a more general issue that tab is
> never always appropriate. Just yesterday I ran into the edge-case of
> trying to indent a line inwards, and instead of indenting it folded the
> definition, because the line unintentionally began with outline-regexp.
>
Okay, this is not an issue for me, but if it happens to you, then it
will happen to other people as well.
>> So I think it's actually the _same_ functionality, and only the naming
>> doesn't reflect that. To put it in a slightly different way, there
>> would be no need for a `outline-mode-cycle-map' if something called
>> `outline-speed-keys-map' (a keymap installed only at column 0 of
>> heading lines) existed.
>
> How about both? If you just want to press tab anywhere, use cycle, and
> otherwise use speed-keys? Or would that be overkill?
Well, menu items are a bit obscure but not too hard to use, actually.
So I would say that it only makes sense to attempt to provide some
built-in speed key functionality if it's easier to use and customize
than the existing alternative.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-21 18:50 ` Augusto Stoffel
@ 2021-09-22 16:09 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-22 16:30 ` Augusto Stoffel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-22 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Augusto Stoffel; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, 50679
>>> "<tab>" 'outline-cycle
>>> "<backtab>" 'outline-cycle-buffer
>>> "f" 'outline-forward-same-level
>>> "b" 'outline-backward-same-level
>>> "n" 'outline-next-visible-heading
>>> "p" 'outline-previous-visible-heading
>>> "u" 'outline-up-heading
>>> "F" 'outline-move-subtree-down
>>> "B" 'outline-move-subtree-up
>>> "@" 'outline-mark-subtree
>>
>> But this means you can't type all these keys on heading lines?
>> This is why I confugured it not to use self-inserting keys:
>
> In my setup those keys only apply at BOL in a heading line. I never
> type anything there.
>
> TAB for reindenting might be a bit trickier. Apparently I never try to
> reindent a heading line when point is at BOL, because I never thought
> about a possible conflict, but I guess I would type SPC TAB in that
> case.
This is exactly what I do every time, i.e. first I type TAB to indent,
but it hides the body, then I type again TAB to unhide the body
to revert the mistake, then type SPC TAB to workaround this annoyance.
>> (let ((map outline-mode-cycle-map)
>> (cmds '(("M-<down>" outline-next-visible-heading)
>> ("M-<up>" outline-previous-visible-heading)
>> ("M-<left>" outline-hide-subtree)
>> ("M-<right>" outline-show-subtree))))
>> (dolist (command cmds)
>> (define-key map (kbd (nth 0 command))
>> `(menu-item
>> "" ,(nth 1 command)
>> :filter ,(lambda (cmd)
>> (when (outline-on-heading-p))
>> cmd))))))
>
> I can't find this block in outline.el, is this a suggestion for a
> possible default?
This is from my init file. I don't suggest to add it to outline.el,
it only shows how it's possible to customize navigation keys.
>>> Looking at the code, it seems that adding bindings to
>>> `outline-mode-cycle-map` would achieve precisely that, but the name
>>> of the keymap doesn't reflect that.
>>
>> Do you suggest different keymaps? And indeed, these two are
>> quite different beasts each with own problems. So we need both
>> outline-mode-cycle-map and outline-minor-mode-cycle-map.
>
> Okay, those keymaps are active in the entire heading line, right?
>
> I would prefer to only have a special behavior at the first character of
> a heading line,
Philip already proposed a predicate that can be set to 'bolp'
to make the map active only on the first character.
> in exchange of allowing _any_ shortcut key with minimal
> interference. Org mode already does that with a simple customization,
> (setq org-use-speed-commands t), so I don't think it would be too
> surprising for most users.
Adding more keys to this keymap has more problems. For example,
in diff-mode TAB navigates to the next hunk, but with outline-minor-mode
TAB on the first character in a diff-mode buffer cycles the outline,
so another available key 'n' should be typed to navigate to the next hunk.
We can't sacrifice this key for outline-next-visible-heading,
because no more keys will remain for diff-hunk-next.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-22 16:09 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-22 16:30 ` Augusto Stoffel
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-09-22 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, 50679
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 19:09, Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> wrote:
>> In my setup those keys only apply at BOL in a heading line. I never
>> type anything there.
>>
>> TAB for reindenting might be a bit trickier. Apparently I never try to
>> reindent a heading line when point is at BOL, because I never thought
>> about a possible conflict, but I guess I would type SPC TAB in that
>> case.
>
> This is exactly what I do every time, i.e. first I type TAB to indent,
> but it hides the body, then I type again TAB to unhide the body
> to revert the mistake, then type SPC TAB to workaround this annoyance.
All right, I didn't think this would be a problem for others, but
obviously it is. In this case (and also taking the diff-mode issue into
account) I guess I'll take back my previous comments.
>> in exchange of allowing _any_ shortcut key with minimal
>> interference. Org mode already does that with a simple customization,
>> (setq org-use-speed-commands t), so I don't think it would be too
>> surprising for most users.
>
> Adding more keys to this keymap has more problems. For example,
> in diff-mode TAB navigates to the next hunk, but with outline-minor-mode
> TAB on the first character in a diff-mode buffer cycles the outline,
> so another available key 'n' should be typed to navigate to the next hunk.
> We can't sacrifice this key for outline-next-visible-heading,
> because no more keys will remain for diff-hunk-next.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 11:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-21 17:58 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-23 16:15 ` Juri Linkov
2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-23 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Augusto Stoffel; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, 50679
> FWIW, I think it would be nice to provide a simple way to define other
> “speed keys” in `outline-minor-mode [1], or even provide some
> pre-configured ones [2].
>
> Looking at the code, it seems that adding bindings to
> `outline-mode-cycle-map` would achieve precisely that, but the name
> of the keymap doesn't reflect that.
You are right, the name of the keymap was wrong, so I renamed it.
> [2]: I personally use these speed keys in outline-minor-mode, which are
> probably very similar to those from Org mode:
>
> "<tab>" 'outline-cycle
> "<backtab>" 'outline-cycle-buffer
> "f" 'outline-forward-same-level
> "b" 'outline-backward-same-level
> "n" 'outline-next-visible-heading
> "p" 'outline-previous-visible-heading
> "u" 'outline-up-heading
> "F" 'outline-move-subtree-down
> "B" 'outline-move-subtree-up
> "@" 'outline-mark-subtree
Now it's very easy to copy keys from outline-mode-prefix-map to
outline-minor-mode-cycle-map with just:
```
(map-keymap (lambda (key binding)
(outline-minor-mode-cycle--bind
outline-minor-mode-cycle-map
(vector key) binding))
outline-mode-prefix-map)
```
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-20 15:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-23 16:17 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-26 13:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-23 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679
tags 50679 fixed
close 50679 28.0.50
thanks
>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>
> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
I separated maps outline-mode-map from outline-minor-mode-cycle-map,
so it's applied only to outline-minor-mode-cycle-map. It seems there is
no need to use it in outline-mode.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-23 16:17 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-26 13:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-27 15:35 ` Juri Linkov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-09-26 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: 50679
Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:
> tags 50679 fixed
> close 50679 28.0.50
> thanks
>
>>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>>
>> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
>> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
>
> I separated maps outline-mode-map from outline-minor-mode-cycle-map,
> so it's applied only to outline-minor-mode-cycle-map. It seems there is
> no need to use it in outline-mode.
I just noticed this now, but I am not sure how clever it is to bind
outline-cycle-buffer via a menu-item. I don't think that there is as
much of a conflict with backtab, as with regular tab, and having to find
a heading before being able to cycling seems less efficient.
--
Philip Kaludercic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-26 13:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-09-27 15:35 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-27 16:16 ` Augusto Stoffel
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juri Linkov @ 2021-09-27 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: 50679
>>>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>>>
>>> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
>>> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
>>
>> I separated maps outline-mode-map from outline-minor-mode-cycle-map,
>> so it's applied only to outline-minor-mode-cycle-map. It seems there is
>> no need to use it in outline-mode.
>
> I just noticed this now, but I am not sure how clever it is to bind
> outline-cycle-buffer via a menu-item. I don't think that there is as
> much of a conflict with backtab, as with regular tab, and having to find
> a heading before being able to cycling seems less efficient.
I'm using S-TAB (backtab) all the time, e.g. to move to the previous
hunk in diff-mode, so menu-item is a saver. After customizing
the option that you proposed to the value "Not at the beginning of the line"
now it's possible to use TAB to move the next diff hunk and S-TAB to
move to the previous diff hunk while keeping point on the first column.
And when point is on the second column then S-TAB hides all hunks,
and TAB opens the current hunk with outline-minor-mode-cycle.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line
2021-09-27 15:35 ` Juri Linkov
@ 2021-09-27 16:16 ` Augusto Stoffel
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Augusto Stoffel @ 2021-09-27 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Juri Linkov; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, 50679
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 18:35, Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> wrote:
>>>>> Then you can customize it to 'bolp'.
>>>>
>>>> I just tried it out, and it looks good. The only thing I wonder is if
>>>> this should apply to both outline-minor-mode and outline-mode?
>>>
>>> I separated maps outline-mode-map from outline-minor-mode-cycle-map,
>>> so it's applied only to outline-minor-mode-cycle-map. It seems there is
>>> no need to use it in outline-mode.
>>
>> I just noticed this now, but I am not sure how clever it is to bind
>> outline-cycle-buffer via a menu-item. I don't think that there is as
>> much of a conflict with backtab, as with regular tab, and having to find
>> a heading before being able to cycling seems less efficient.
The way I solve this problem is by calling `outline-back-to-heading'
(which, strangely, is not an interactive command). After that, I have
access to all “speed keys”. This works almost like a transient keymap.
Actually, I have a DWIM command that calls `outline-up-heading' if
already at a heading and `outline-back-to-heading' otherwise. I'm not
sure whether such a command would be deemed generally useful or just a
bit too weird.
> I'm using S-TAB (backtab) all the time, e.g. to move to the previous
> hunk in diff-mode, so menu-item is a saver. After customizing
> the option that you proposed to the value "Not at the beginning of the line"
> now it's possible to use TAB to move the next diff hunk and S-TAB to
> move to the previous diff hunk while keeping point on the first column.
> And when point is on the second column then S-TAB hides all hunks,
> and TAB opens the current hunk with outline-minor-mode-cycle.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-09-27 16:16 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-09-19 16:24 bug#50679: 28.0.50; outline-minor-mode-cycle should be able to only cycle at the begining of a line Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-19 16:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-19 20:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-20 7:02 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-20 15:25 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-20 15:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-20 18:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 11:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-21 11:44 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 11:58 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-21 19:02 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-21 17:58 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-21 18:50 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-22 16:09 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-22 16:30 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-09-23 16:15 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-21 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-23 16:17 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-26 13:59 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-09-27 15:35 ` Juri Linkov
2021-09-27 16:16 ` Augusto Stoffel
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