From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 14:36:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87h6th1d3d.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <835y9xecvp.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt391lzq.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7nppf3y.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10046"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: philipk@posteo.net, rpluim@gmail.com, 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, dmitry@gutov.dev, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 15 15:35:21 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1png3l-0002Ng-05 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sat, 15 Apr 2023 06:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([87.196.73.56]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y12-20020a5d470c000000b002c70ce264bfsm5801498wrq.76.2023.04.15.06.34.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 15 Apr 2023 06:34:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87o7nppf3y.fsf@gmail.com> ("=?UTF-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec"'s message of "Sat, 15 Apr 2023 13:19:29 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:260054 Archived-At: K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec writes: > yield something that users might consider "inferior" feature-wise when > =F0=9D=92=AB=3Deglot.=20=20 > A bit of a bummer, but not a deal-breaker IMO;=20 It's not the end of the world. But certainly not good, especially if those users have just upgraded to Emacs 29 on some new machine and ported over their Emacs 28 config. It could even break. In fact eventually it will simply break, if Eglot 1.16 adds, say, some eglot-fancy-eldoc-function and the config has (package-install 'eglot) (add-hook 'eldoc-documentation-functions 'eglot-fancy-eldoc-function) This will break sooner or later, and bizzarely so, IMO. Just as a data point, I got a lot of confused users just because of bug#62576 and the missing "project-name" function. And, mind, you there, the simplest of workarounds, restarting Emacs fixes the issue. But it still confused a load of users so eventually I tooks steps to avoid it. Just see https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/search?q=3Dproject-name&type=3Ddiscussi= ons > Sorry for butting in and adding more words to this lengthy discussion; > just thought that hearing the perspective from one random user might > help.=20=20 No problem. I always like reading your feedback :-) Let's see where the tip of this discussion is heading. Philip proposes: > > - User option to enable upgrading built-in packages > > - Prefix argument to enable upgrading built-in packages > > - Always upgrade built-in packages And Eli replies: > The first two on emacs-29, the last one on master=20 Now, this means that things like (use-package eglot :ensure t) in Emacs 26, 27 and 28 will rev up Eglot to the very latest, Emacs 29 will stay at 1.12.29 and Emacs 30, 31, 32 again to the very latest. This is almost the mathematical definition of instability. And the amplitude of the version cliff will just keep growing. I just don't think it's a good thing, but if Eli and you think it is, that's perfectly legitimate. The key thing here is that there was a package hitherto with given update semantics. That package wasn't in core and now is. It's a clear clash of update semantics, and noone (including me) was able to foresee it. I do appreciate all the other arguments for stability. Because of that I proposed a very simple patch that addresses everyone's concern but unfortunately I don't think is going anywhere -- who knows for what reason. Even though Philip, Dmitry and I himself think it is the cleanest solution for emacs 29. See the patch here: it's 6-7 lines of code. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D62720#467 > between Eli & Philip re. changing package-install or package-update > makes me unsure what "U x" will actually do with eglot in Emacs 29, so > my previous parenthesized digression might be moot. Alas U x in the package menu _also_ doesn't upgrade Eglot. And neither does M-x package-update-all. I don't see any plans for doing so. Jo=C3=A3o