From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Rumney Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9794: 24.0.90; `format-time-string' no good for %Z Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:20:06 +0800 Message-ID: <87fwipgltl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <68A313A7DDAA4912A255DAFE495606F9@us.oracle.com> <24FDB65B0E784E978085D30A7CBF9FAF@us.oracle.com> <8362jlv0rq.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1319030477 23848 80.91.229.12 (19 Oct 2011 13:21:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:21:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9794@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 19 15:21:12 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW4x-00038k-55 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:21:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59730 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW4w-0008IB-8V for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:21:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:57151) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW4t-0008Hp-Fj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:21:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW4p-0006nd-P8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:21:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:47679) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW4p-0006nY-HU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW5p-0001Af-Ue for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:22:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Jason Rumney Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9794 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,w32 X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9794-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9794.13190304914464 (code B ref 9794); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:22:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9794) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2011 13:21:31 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW5I-00019r-Oy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:21:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RGW5G-00019d-7A for 9794@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:21:27 -0400 Original-Received: by qadb12 with SMTP id b12so1291446qad.3 for <9794@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:20:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=31qMq7OtkHcL3uk1xAW/0/XqTBW2kiuhoVGI1Q5APxg=; b=RhWBDoGEIuRC4RzK8HUVgRxFV2poFmim37OYLHdP8MNhrML6FbHuQQhohqqV9wwbKv UaB6sfJXFs/g3QKjvYseOlAkRR3fd4X5tr0EZr9IzqQjYowzRRkrEC4eTkUWzDBNxgzJ lTPEEur38CUhIfZ618Rvvvum9/gBh0hOmmdek= Original-Received: by 10.68.71.234 with SMTP id y10mr12297093pbu.132.1319030417663; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from home.jasonrumney.net ([180.75.148.1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jm5sm7460012pbc.1.2011.10.19.06.20.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by home.jasonrumney.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D11841523; Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:20:06 +0800 (MYT) In-Reply-To: <8362jlv0rq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:33:29 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:22:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:52849 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Drew Adams" >> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 00:43:28 -0700 >> >> And just because a non-Windows developer thinks that letting them >> see "(Pacific Daylight Time)" is not useful to them and "()" is more >> meaningful. Sheesh. > > No, it's because a _Windows_ developer found out that the Windows > time-zone names violate international standards for what %Z should > produce, which breaks other Emacs features that use the results. The international standards alone aren't a problem - GNU software in general does not follow standards slavishly. The real problem is that for many uses of time format strings (which correctly check for an empty %Z string and use %z as a backup), in mail, news, HTTP headers, XML documents and similar uses which rely on the strings being standards compliant, the non-compliant long forms returned by Windows tzname() cause real problems which are much more severe than the inconveniences that this change has caused. One proposal in that thread was to introduce a new format specifier to print the long names (on non-Windows platforms it could output the commonly used "Continent/City" format). Another proposal was that %EZ could be used, which is especially fitting, for the Windows timezone names, which are apparently locale sensitive (which was one of the reported problems that led to them being removed in the first place).