From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37926: [PATCH] Unify Gnus select methods Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 14:10:40 -0700 Message-ID: <87ftj6j86n.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87zhhoh9kn.fsf@dick> <87a79mcmoi.fsf@gnus.org> <87y2x62gnf.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87ftj68kfe.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> <87zhhenzc4.fsf@dick> <87ftj672l8.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="111182"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 37926@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , dick.r.chiang@gmail.com To: Deus Max Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 02 22:11:59 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0gh-000Soo-E6 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 22:11:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50628 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0gg-0003uY-Bp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:11:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48330) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fq-0003fq-Ct for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:11:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fp-00039u-9y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:11:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:52560) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fp-00032l-6L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:11:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fl-0007w7-TP; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:11:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 21:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37926 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 37926-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37926.157272905130491 (code B ref 37926); Sat, 02 Nov 2019 21:11:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2019 21:10:51 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33147 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fb-0007vg-2t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:10:51 -0400 Original-Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:59136 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iR0fY-0007vR-C1 for 37926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:10:48 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C17DFA089; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 21:10:42 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87ftj672l8.fsf@dellcorei5dias.home> (Deus Max's message of "Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:52:19 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:170847 Archived-At: On 11/02/19 16:52 PM, Deus Max wrote: > On Sat, Nov 02 2019, dick.r.chiang@gmail.com wrote: > >> One, to reiterate, the patch at hand is a useability improvement, protecting new users from >> the byzantine distinction of primary/secondary, and preserving the distinction >> internally for backwards compatibility. Some have argued keeping the internal >> distinction makes the patch unworthy of the risk, to which I am sympathetic. >> > You agree it is a usability improvement and that the current behaviour is > a byzantine distinction. > Sometimes to move forward, you have to break continuity. > Especially with byzantine practises, old OSes, etc., etc. > >> Two, with mild effort, I could fully eliminate the distinction without user >> guidance or manually rewriting newsrcs. Such a change exacerbates risk. > > Which is probably not mild. As you will discover from the many-many bugs > that follow. A while ago I worked on a patch that removed the distinction altogether. I just assumed that the first method in `gnus-select-methods' should be treated specially, and all unprefixed groups were assigned to that method at load time. That part wasn't hard. Then each method had a "display prefix" parameter, which defaulted to the name of the method except for the first method, where it defaulted to the empty string. Group names stayed fully prefixed everywhere in the system, and were only displayed differently. I was actually happier with getting rid of the is-the-group-name-prefixed-or-not logic all over Gnus than I was with reducing user confusion with two select method options. But there's a lot of very fundamental code that wants `guns-select-method' to be set, and I eventually got bogged down with that. I still think it's worth doing, though. Eric